Working something out?

[Jane Diaz]

How would you respond to this....

I know I contacted you once before about this and you needed more info. I need You to tell Me what my idea would cost, I have no idea! Do you ever travel to look at the sign sites? We are a florist in (a town 15 miles away) and our style is industrial/ retro. We have some large metal hoops that I would love to incorporate as our sign base but I think you need to come get a "feel" for what we do. Let me know if you are interested in working something out.

I told them the first time we couldn't quote on it because we need more info...we STILL need more info. I wanted to ask them how much wedding flowers were but Joe said that was rude. :Big Laugh

 

[StopSignGraphics]

I love those customers.

Customer: "I need a sign"
me: " What kind of sign? What do you need on the sign?"
customer: "Words and stuff"

 

[player]

Some people will do a sales call. The flower shop is calling you, so it is not a cold call. You could talk to them to see if they have a budget, but why don't you drive the 15 minutes to see what they want?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Why not charge them for a site survey and go get the info yourself?

 

[GB2]

How would you respond to this....

I'll be there in 20 minutes! Thank you!

 

[Jane Diaz]

I responded:
We would be happy to come and look at your project. We charge for site surveys though. It's a mileage and time out of the shop fee.
Another way we could approach it would be you could send us photos and measurements of the site, you could stop by our shop so we could show you different materials available and then we could come up with a sketch. There is a smaller fee for that, deducted from the total of the job when we get the work. It is impossible to give you a price without knowing materials, size, complexity, etc.

 

[fresh]

I have a few thoughts on these jobs...

First, ask them what their budget it, and use that as a starting point. Maybe they have $10K they want to spend, but if its only $200, I don't do site visits. If a job is more than 5 minutes away, I always make sure the client knows our minimums.

Next, you can respond with "what information is going on the sign, and where will the sign be installed?" Those are direct questions that the client must answer, and should be enough info for you to get a quote started.

Finally, add about 25% more to whatever your quote is, because if they don't know what they want, they will probably make you jump through hoops to get an approval.

EDIT: When people are so vague, I've been known to say "$5,000?" Then they get a little more specific with what they want.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I responded:
We would be happy to come and look at your project. We charge for site surveys though. It's a mileage and time out of the shop fee.
Another way we could approach it would be you could send us photos and measurements of the site, you could stop by our shop so we could show you different materials available and then we could come up with a sketch. There is a smaller fee for that, deducted from the total of the job when we get the work. It is impossible to give you a price without knowing materials, size, complexity, etc.

Perfect Reply in my book, if they aren't willing to pay for you to come look... They are either just shopping or want something for nothing.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I responded:
We would be happy to come and look at your project. We charge for site surveys though. It's a mileage and time out of the shop fee.

I think that's the best way.

Another way we could approach it would be you could send us photos and measurements of the site, you could stop by our shop so we could show you different materials available and then we could come up with a sketch. There is a smaller fee for that, deducted from the total of the job when we get the work. It is impossible to give you a price without knowing materials, size, complexity, etc.

I'm always concerned with that. They just don't know exactly what you would need and I've had some get put out if they had to do things more then once.

I had one customer (there were a significant amount of others, but this was by far the worst) that wanted me to match embroidery with what they already had done (different then the original logo that they sent). What I ended up getting was a photo of a jumbled up shirt that you could see sections of the original embroidery, but not the whole thing and certainly not to get scale. I had asked for another photo, never heard back.

 

[Marlene]

I've been asked to drive for more than an hour to look at a door. they don't seem to understand that I've seen doors and don't need to go see another one. they don't understand that we are different when it comes to sales and consider a drive to site a paid survey. for a customer like this I would ask like you did for some photos and also would ask if their website was a reflection of what they had in mind for the overall look of the sign.

 

[Jane Diaz]

I love when they call and want you to come and look at their window. I want to say "Is it glass?"

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

We would be happy to come and look at your project. We charge for site surveys though. It's a mileage and time out of the shop fee.

This seems like a logical way to do things and is something we need to employ around our shop.

 

[player]

That works until your competitors show up for free and take the order without you as a threat, because you want to get paid to look at the scope of work.

There is a point where you have to charge for building a specification, but the art of sales is not being used here.

 

[OADesign]

That works until your competitors show up for free and take the order without you as a threat, because you want to get paid to look at the scope of work.

There is a point where you have to charge for building a specification, but the art of sales is not being used here.

This time... I have to agree with you. I have won so many gigs just doing this. I ask clients about their experience with the process and why they chose me over another shop. 85% of the time the response is, "...you showed up. The other guy wouldn't ". And it usually followed with reasons like, they were too busy. Or they charge for estimate/site visits. But the other 15% say, "You picked up the phone..."

Yes. There are times when you might take a bit of a loss for driving out somewhere to measure a window. But more often than not, this turn to something larger.

But it helps to have a commission only estimator on deck, but that's whole other thread...

 

[Desert_Signs]

That works until your competitors show up for free and take the order without you as a threat, because you want to get paid to look at the scope of work.

There is a point where you have to charge for building a specification, but the art of sales is not being used here.

+1.

You just have to be able to qualify them on the phone.

 

[Joe Diaz]

That works until your competitors show up for free and take the order without you as a threat, because you want to get paid to look at the scope of work.

There is a point where you have to charge for building a specification, but the art of sales is not being used here.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm not sure of all the specifics of this job, but I know where the request came from and a "competitor" lives in the same town. You have to wonder why they didn't get the job by default. Perhaps this person has already contacted that competitor and perhaps they are price shopping and assume we might be cheaper. knowing what I know about the competitor that would be a bad assumption. Perhaps they didn't like what the competitor had to offer..... I mean there are so many different reasons why they would want to contact us, but it would be a waste to spend too much time speculating. It may turn into a job for us, it may not, but we will still be trucking along no matter what happens.

The fact of the matter is, it's a risk for us to do surveys for free with the hope that we may get the job. A risk some shops might want to take, and you know what, that's fine. But when you have plenty of work to worry about now, it's not a risk we are willing to take... and we certainly aren't going to adjust our policies to match what our competitors are doing. That includes doing sketch work for free and driving out of town to do survey for free. Our policies haven't harmed our business in the long run. We have developed those policies over time based on experience, not so much based on what others are doing. I would fear spending too much time going after these shot-in-the-dark jobs would take us away from doing the work that we know we have and we know we can get. We have never had or needed a door to door salesman, it's just not the type of businesses we are.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with those that don't charge for surveys in my opinion, (especially if you need the work) OADesign points out that he has gotten more jobs going after work that other companies may have passed on, and that's great. If there is enough work to go around what is the problem with both approaches being used by different companies?

So perhaps the "art of sales" is working just fine for our particular business. We may not have best reputation for giving away services for free, but we do have a good reputation of taking really good care of our clients when they do trust us enough to put some money down and meet us halfway.

 

[Joe Diaz]

One red flag is when they said: "we need you here so you can get a feel for what we do" We have run into this before. Translation: "we are going to show you around the place and give you the entire rundown of our business". Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing, so perhaps "red flag" is a bit harsh, but what it most likely means is what they may or you may think is a 15 minute trip will actually be an hour to two hour trip. So you have to ask yourself how do you account for that time. Especially if you don't get the job. It could be a cost of business I guess, but if this happens over and over again, it really adds up. Just my opinion.

 

[player]

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm not sure of all the specifics of this job, but I know where the request came from and a "competitor" lives in the same town. You have to wonder why they didn't get the job by default. Perhaps this person has already contacted that competitor and perhaps they are price shopping and assume we might be cheaper. knowing what I know about the competitor that would be a bad assumption. Perhaps they didn't like what the competitor had to offer..... I mean there are so many different reasons why they would want to contact us, but it would be a waste to spend too much time speculating. It may turn into a job for us, it may not, but we will still be trucking along no matter what happens.

The fact of the matter is, it's a risk for us to do surveys for free with the hope that we may get the job. A risk some shops might want to take, and you know what, that's fine. But when you have plenty of work to worry about now, it's not a risk we are willing to take... and we certainly aren't going to adjust our policies to match what our competitors are doing. That includes doing sketch work for free and driving out of town to do survey for free. Our policies haven't harmed our business in the long run. We have developed those policies over time based on experience, not so much based on what others are doing. I would fear spending too much time going after these shot-in-the-dark jobs would take us away from doing the work that we know we have and we know we can get. We have never had or needed a door to door salesman, it's just not the type of businesses we are.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with those that don't charge for surveys in my opinion, (especially if you need the work) OADesign points out that he has gotten more jobs going after work that other companies may have passed on, and that's great. If there is enough work to go around what is the problem with both approaches being used by different companies?

So perhaps the "art of sales" is working just fine for our particular business. We may not have best reputation for giving away services for free, but we do have a good reputation of taking really good care of our clients when they do trust us enough to put some money down and meet us halfway.

You should not think about your competitors at all. I have seen some of your work here, and you are definitely world class. They are calling you, and that is what matters.
Lighten up! They want to at least talk to you... For a 15 minute drive, in an hour or less you could easily qualify them, find out if they have a budget, other quotes, why they want you- plus show them your portfolio, ball park it, get a big fat deposit, and get the f out of there with a smile on everyone's face. Or maybe they are just kicking tires, but to get sort of "testy" with them is not the way I would work things. Even if I was as good and as busy as you.

If you are busy and don't care about future business because it just keeps coming then carry on carrying on...

 

[visual800]

I would do a site visit for free if it meant a chance to bid, but 15 miles away, nahhh. I have them best descibe what they want and email it to me. i could be wrong but it sounds like a "off the wall dope smoking dream" that some folks come up with and will be nothing but a time waster 30 miles round trip is a good hike unless it has promising appeal

 

[Joe Diaz]

You should not think about your competitors at all. I have seen some of your work here, and you are definitely world class. They are calling you, and that is what matters.
Lighten up! They want to at least talk to you... For a 15 minute drive, in an hour or less you could easily qualify them, find out if they have a budget, other quotes, why they want you- plus show them your portfolio, ball park it, get a big fat deposit, and get the f out of there with a smile on everyone's face. Or maybe they are just kicking tires, but to get sort of "testy" with them is not the way I would work things. Even if I was as good and as busy as you.

If you are busy and don't care about future business because it just keeps coming then carry on carrying on...

Lighten up? I'm light as feather baby. I felt like my response to your comment was pretty even-tempered. Sure for an hour or less we could get all the information we need about this company, but that doesn't necessarily mean for an hour or less we get the job or get a good job. I don't think asking for a survey fee is being "testy" at all. It is a good way to protect yourself a bit, and many shops do it and many clients have no problem with it. I think most people get the concept of time equals money.

And we do care about future business, that is why instead of spending an hour or so on what our instincts are telling us is a possible dead end, we prefer to spend that hour or so on getting the work we do have out the door faster, making our existing clients happy, and pursuing the work that we are more likely to get from potential clients that can give us more information to work from. So really this is all about future business and it's decisions like these that I have to think are why we are fortunate to have work right now... If we didn't, you bet we would be heading over there right now.