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Wrap vinyl lifting in E150 body channels

Discussion in 'Tips & Tricks' started by SignPros, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. SignPros

    SignPros Member

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    Aug 16, 2010
    Owensboro, KY
    Using Oracal 3951RA with 290 lam on a 2011 E150 van. When we're doing the install, we're being very deliberate to tuck the vinyl into the channel as we go up, and then after each piece is applied, we go back and heat the channel and press it with a felt squeegee. But we're still having problems with the vinyl bubbling and lifting in the body channels, particularly the tight channel that runs the full length of the body just below the windows. For the life of me, I can't figure out what we're doing wrong. Any suggestions?
     
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  2. CheapVehicleWrap

    CheapVehicleWrap Very Active Member

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    What did you prep with & who did it? Why were you going "up"?
     
  3. SignPros

    SignPros Member

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    Owensboro, KY
    Cleaned with RapidTac App fluid ahead of time, several times til the towel was clean, and sitting inside a finished out shop, so dust isn't an issue. Then wiped with alcohol. What do you mean 'who did it'? We did it. Myself and my install helper. The sections are 54" wide x about 84" tall. We hang it vertical, hinge it across just below that body line, apply down from there and then go up from there. What does going 'up' have to do with it?
     
  4. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Sounds like you did everything correctly.
    How much post heat did you you apply the second time you went over it?

    We use 180v3 here and you have to heat the stuff almost to the point of the laminate bubbling up off 180 to get it to stay down in the grooves and not tent up around rivets.

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
  5. Mason

    Mason Very Active Member

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    Ive found that to be an issue with the 3951 ra in the past, switched to 3M and haven't had a problem since. Sounds like you may be stretching/heating it into the channel a touch too much maybe..
     
  6. Brands Imaging

    Brands Imaging Active Member

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    Listen,

    Just relax. This isnt an insult, but it doesnt sound like you have a lot of experience and thats okay. You might THINK you are pressing the vinyl directly into the channel but you are clearly not. Out of the top 3 Cast Wrap brands Oracal has the most aggressive tac. In order for those recessed area not to "pop" or bubble there has to be a DIRECT feed in those areas, NO BRIDGING (meaning you squegee over the area then pushing in hard with heat, THIS IS NOT GOOD)

    It might seem like you are pressing the vinyl directly into the channel but I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of areas where there material had adhered itself to the vehicle right adbove that recessed area. If thats the case you are bridging, or stretching the vinyl into that area causing it to eventually lift or pop. Just really concentrate on DIRECT FEEDING all your vinyl and use 3m Primer94 to help you along the way.
     
  7. SignPros

    SignPros Member

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    Aug 16, 2010
    Owensboro, KY
    I promise you, we are direct feeding (to use your term...we just call it tucking) the material into that channel. No, I don't have a TON of experience doing wraps, but I've worked on my fair hare, and my install help has multiple years doing them. We absolutely, positively, aren't bridging the gap. In fact, that particular body line is extra difficult because it's so tight that we have to keep popping the vinyl OFF the body just above the body line while we're working it into the groove.

    I did use the 3M primer on a previous E150 with Oracal vinyl and had horrible problems, eventually having Oracal tech support themselves tell me to NOT use the 3M primer, that it breaks down Oracal's adhesive, causing it to release from the vinyl surface itself. That's their story...I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that's what they told me.

    Now I'm not going to promise that the vinyl wasn't stuck to the top side of the V shape of the channel as we were working it onto the bottom side, but I really don't think so. We were very deliberate.

    As for how much heat, the Oracal rep himself told me that you have to heat it almost to the point of melting. When we press the squeegee into the vinyl, it leaves a slight impression of the surface of the squeegee. So it's obviously warm. Any warmer and I would think it will burn the laminate.
     
  8. MontereySigns

    MontereySigns Member

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    Just trying to troubleshoot....

    How long did you wait between printing and laminating?

    -Bud
     
  9. pinhead3616

    pinhead3616 New Member

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    check out 3m 94 primer
     
  10. natedawg9640

    natedawg9640 Member

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    Appleton, Wi
    i'd clean the surface with a wax remover/degreaser instead of just rapid tack. that should be yours first step.

    water/soap if really dirty
    then wax remover
    then alcohol or rapid tac
     
  11. SignPros

    SignPros Member

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    Aug 16, 2010
    Owensboro, KY
    I did use the 3M primer on a previous E150 with Oracal vinyl and had horrible problems, eventually having Oracal tech support themselves tell me to NOT use the 3M primer, that it breaks down Oracal's adhesive, causing it to release from the vinyl surface itself. That's their story...I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that's what they told me.

    As for using a wax remover...I hadn't thought of that, and that's the first anyone has really mentioned it. I'll definitely start doing that from now on.
     
  12. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Denver.
    I recall someone on here saying that 3M primer, removes adhesion from Oracle vinyl.


    not sure how true that is though.
     
  13. SignPros

    SignPros Member

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    Aug 16, 2010
    Owensboro, KY
    I'm here to tell ya', brother, it's true. On that other wrap we did where I used the 3M primer with Oracal vinyl, when we removed the vinyl, ALL of the adhesive stayed on the truck. The vinyl came right off of it, but left all the adhesive on the truck where we had used the primer. Seems ridiculous that it does that, and honestly, seems like a failure of the vinyl itself, but it happened. The Oracal rep actually told me (after the fact, of course) that it's a known issue. That's why I didn't dare even get the primer close tot his van.
     
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