Wraps and the Worth of Installers

[Kentucky Wraps]

In response to a recent thread I feel this needs it's own one (thread).

It comes down to this:

A Wrapped Vehicle is a Product. A product with a Market Value.
It gives a return on the investment via advertising.
It can be written off as a business expense.
It can be printed anywhere on any large format printer on a myriad of vinyls and shipped anywhere.
Just about anyone can get a $20K loan for a large format printer and laminator or even order prints online.

It's not a wrapped vehicle until it is installed. The 2 most important aspects to a vehicle wrap are:
A) Good Design
B) Quality Install
If it doesn't have those 2, it's a bad product.

If it takes an installer a full 8 to 12 hours to make the finished product look great on a vehicle, how much value is on that persons ability?
Good installers bring the wrap to life and actually transform it. I think far too much emphasis is placed on the markup of the vinyl and not enough on the labor of the installation.

 

[rossmosh]

I don't do wraps so take my opinion as maybe someone with some knowledge but also just as a consumer.

Install is the last thing I would think I'm paying extra for. If you're offering wraps, you should know how to apply them to an acceptable standard in an acceptable time. An installer is a technician. If I higher a technician of any type, I expect them to do the job they're hired to do to an acceptable standard regardless if you're a plumber, mechanic, arborist, painter, or carpenter. If you can't do the job, don't take the job. If you do a bad job, don't expect me to pay full price for it.

For me, I think the marketing for wraps is:

1. Design. If the install is fantastic and the materials are the best but the design is awful, what's the point? People will overlook minor imperfections if the overall presentation is on the money.

2. Warranty/Quality. I group this all together which includes install, printer, vinyl, and just the company being willing to stand behind their work. Good companies that have been around typically don't sell crap as they know it will just blow up in their face later on.

3. Price. We all know it's a factor. Like most people, I shoot for typical market price. If you're the most expensive or the least expensive, I cross you off the list almost immediately. I might consider the cheaper guy for a second more if I know why they're less expensive (they might work out of their home which means they can charge less).

 

[BALLPARK]

I see 3 aspects of importance... Each will vary based on the client ranging from a small self owned business with nitpicking to the large franchise that is more concerned about color ranges and deadlines while viewing an industry standard install.

Design
Print
Install

The design quality is what separates most shops. Top shelf designs can capture the the attention and leads to more work quickly. Lower end designs that fail pretty much eliminates the next two factors. Just like a seasoned installer the rate of project completion is going to increase with better designers.

The print quality is very important from the type of inks and cast vinyl brands used. Pinch the pennies and the long term outlook is not pretty no matter how good it looks on day one. The warranty will come into play when dealing with enough wrap based projects. There will be issues and the consistency of the prints will be vital for reprints within the first 180 days. Let a lesser type worker run and maintain your printers and you will spend more on repairs and lose more in downtime than most shops could handle.

The install can be done by those familiar with vinyl installs over the years. Its best preformed by seasoned wrap installers. The quality of the wrap install when viewing up close shows where the less familiar installers make their mistakes compared to seasoned vets. Wraps are mostly viewed from five to ten feet away in terms of standard viewing. Without a great design and print quality that at least reaches industry standards... Installers hardcore value would only be for color change type wraps which is more residential and headcase types projects as most have a personal connection to the vehicle and expect perfection.

Certified Installers can be brought in for two to three dollars per sqft. So that is about where I would think the max value for a single employee that sole purpose is to install vinyl graphics.... Example 3000 sqft a month through a shop, then I would cap one worker for about 12 to 15 per hour. Larger wrap shops with more volume and wrappers, then up the cap to 18 to 20 per hour as they produce more at a higher level.

Design $500+
Print Cast Vinyl and Laminate $6 to $9 per square foot.
Install $3 per square foot

Just my thoughts... All three factors are needed to be successful. Missing any of them will limit the potential of the growth with the vehicle graphic industry.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I don't do wraps so take my opinion as maybe someone with some knowledge but also just as a consumer.

Install is the last thing I would think I'm paying extra for. If you're offering wraps, you should know how to apply them to an acceptable standard in an acceptable time. An installer is a technician. If I higher a technician of any type, I expect them to do the job they're hired to do to an acceptable standard regardless if you're a plumber, mechanic, arborist, painter, or carpenter. If you can't do the job, don't take the job. If you do a bad job, don't expect me to pay full price for it.

For me, I think the marketing for wraps is:

1. Design. If the install is fantastic and the materials are the best but the design is awful, what's the point? People will overlook minor imperfections if the overall presentation is on the money.

2. Warranty/Quality. I group this all together which includes install, printer, vinyl, and just the company being willing to stand behind their work. Good companies that have been around typically don't sell crap as they know it will just blow up in their face later on.

3. Price. We all know it's a factor. Like most people, I shoot for typical market price. If you're the most expensive or the least expensive, I cross you off the list almost immediately. I might consider the cheaper guy for a second more if I know why they're less expensive (they might work out of their home which means they can charge less).

Who said anything about "paying extra"? This was about the importance of the quality install to make the wrap the product it is.
Of course it should look good or why pay for it. You have veered away from my point which was the quality install is an important part of the "product".
You compare the wrap install labor to plumber, mechanic, painter, etc. Those "technicians" can make $45 to $150 an hour. So that actually proves my point further...thank you.
1. I listed Design first as well. You agree with me.
2. Warranty/Quality are 2 different things. Rarely does anybody base their wrap purchase around the warranty. (just ask around here) Many don't even offer warranties.
Quality is my 2nd point (install)
3. Price...go ahead and consider the guy working out of his home. Go ahead and cross the most expensive off. You didn't mention asking about (materials, experience, photos of work, testimonies, etc)
This wasn't about pricing wraps, nor was it about marketing. It was about the quality installers value in the end product. Nice Goose Chase though.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I see 3 aspects of importance... Each will vary based on the client ranging from a small self owned business with nitpicking to the large franchise that is more concerned about color ranges and deadlines while viewing an industry standard install.

Design
Print
Install

The design quality is what separates most shops. Top shelf designs can capture the the attention and leads to more work quickly. Lower end designs that fail pretty much eliminates the next two factors. Just like a seasoned installer the rate of project completion is going to increase with better designers.

The print quality is very important from the type of inks and cast vinyl brands used. Pinch the pennies and the long term outlook is not pretty no matter how good it looks on day one. The warranty will come into play when dealing with enough wrap based projects. There will be issues and the consistency of the prints will be vital for reprints within the first 180 days. Let a lesser type worker run and maintain your printers and you will spend more on repairs and lose more in downtime than most shops could handle.

The install can be done by those familiar with vinyl installs over the years. Its best preformed by seasoned wrap installers. The quality of the wrap install when viewing up close shows where the less familiar installers make their mistakes compared to seasoned vets. Wraps are mostly viewed from five to ten feet away in terms of standard viewing. Without a great design and print quality that at least reaches industry standards... Installers hardcore value would only be for color change type wraps which is more residential and headcase types projects as most have a personal connection to the vehicle and expect perfection.

Certified Installers can be brought in for two to three dollars per sqft. So that is about where I would think the max value for a single employee that sole purpose is to install vinyl graphics.... Example 3000 sqft a month through a shop, then I would cap one worker for about 12 to 15 per hour. Larger wrap shops with more volume and wrappers, then up the cap to 18 to 20 per hour as they produce more at a higher level.

Design $500+
Print Cast Vinyl and Laminate $6 to $9 per square foot.
Install $3 per square foot

Just my thoughts... All three factors are needed to be successful. Missing any of them will limit the potential of the growth with the vehicle graphic industry.

Print Quality? The different ink types and brands of vinyls do NOT change the print quality. Sorry. As for longevity I'm talking about Cast wrap vinyl, not calendered. (goes without saying in here) I think you are sidestepping the topic of the thread by going into different concerns of color matching in 180 days for reprints etc. This thread is about the value of the Quality Installer as it relates to the finished product. Not sure why you went into explaining that there is a difference between seasoned installers and less familiar ones. Does that really need to be explained to anyone???
You think $3 a sq. ft. is a good wage to pay an quality installer to wrap ...a smart car or a box truck? You make no distinction regarding difficulty level.
You also aren't considering how long the installer takes to wrap said vehicle. This is a HUGE factor when you have a customers money making marketing vehicle sitting in your bay.
Installer A wraps a van in 7 hours (one day)
Installer B same van, 2 days.
Both get equal pay? Really?

You think the quality installer has a max value of $15 to $20 and is based on the size of the shop? This is more like the topic of the thread...and also the kind of thinking I'm trying to address. I'd like to here the "reasoning" for how you came up with those numbers. THIS is the point of the thread.
Example, more wrappers means they can help each other on a wrap, making the install a little easier for each...slightly reducing the skill level requirements...etc.

 

[FatCat]

OK, I might ramble on and bounce around a bit, but here are my thoughts on this topic;

1. The quality of the install is absolutely imperative to the overall value of a wrap. (Yes printing must look good and design is key in communicating your message.) However, anyone can order prints from a supplier/wholesaler online. Once you have them how it looks applied to the vehicle is the responsibility of the installer. Most customers who think they can wrap, will order prints or a camo pattern online and then give up after a few hours and they realize there must be something more to it than the youtube videos they've seen. Likewise, I've seen lots of installers who can squeegee vinyl to a car or truck, but to me cutting/trimming around door handles and such really makes the biggest difference on how things look in the end. Many don't have the patience and everything looks hacked. The good installers take the time and are more critical around the little things like key holes, window squirters, door handles, hinges, etc...

2. I personally can wrap, and I do a good job, however it takes me about 20-25% longer than the "installers" I hire to do most of my wraps. Now, typically jobs we do are priced by the square foot, or by the project. So I know going in what to charge the customer, and what I will be charged. If my installers agree to wrap a van for $750.00 it is up to them to do it as quickly as possible to make as much money as possible in the shortest time. I really don't care if it takes them 4 hours or two days - the price we agree upon up front is the price I will pay. (Obviously, there is a little leeway if an unforeseen problem arises, etc.) But I would only pay hourly to a full time employee for wrap installation. Even then, there would have to be some guidelines about acceptable time frames for completion.

3. I believe there is also a huge difference on commercial wraps and custom wraps or color changes for the car buffs in terms of expectations. I have all but given up trying to do color changes and stuff for the "car guys". They want their stuff to look like paint from every angle, and anymore I just tell them no and let them go paint it. I realize there are shops that specialize in this and disassemble a car to the point it makes it easier to wrap, but even then in the end its a 2 dimensional film applied to a 3 dimensional surface. In certain instances you are going to have seams, small wrinkles, bunching, etc and there really isn't a lot you can do about it. So yeah, we focus on the commercial advertising aspect vs the custom car guys.

4. Lastly, lately in my area there has been a sharp decline in pricing from my competitors - and I'm not talking about guys working out of a garage or basement, I'm talking about brick and mortar shops that have been doing this for years. There comes a point where the profit isn't worth the risks. I really try hard to keep our pricing competitive, but there is always someone willing to go lower - not that they are doing a bad job or using cheap materials, but because they are dedicated wrap shops and need the business so bad they price it to where I won't touch it. Good for them, hopefully they will last through the race to the bottom. Honestly, I'll make more profit printing a dozen 4x8 banners than wrapping a van or car any day with far less hassle and time wrapped up in the shop. To each their own, but goodness charge what its worth!

OK, off my soap box!

 

[T_K]

Install is the last thing I would think I'm paying extra for. If you're offering wraps, you should know how to apply them to an acceptable standard in an acceptable time. An installer is a technician. If I higher a technician of any type, I expect them to do the job they're hired to do to an acceptable standard regardless if you're a plumber, mechanic, arborist, painter, or carpenter. If you can't do the job, don't take the job. If you do a bad job, don't expect me to pay full price for it.

If I'm looking for a mechanic, plumber, carpenter, etc., I'm looking for quality work. All things being equal, lowest price wins every time. But comparisons are rarely equal. I'd rather pay a higher labor rate for someone I know will do a good job, than pay Mr. Youtube for the job. There's always the question of whether I can afford the quality labor, which is where I start looking at compromises between price and quality.

You can take the best material, best design and graphics and ruin the quality of a wrap by substandard work. (Of course, you'll say you wouldn't pay full price). But you will wind up paying more going with the cheap option - it might not be money, but there's time, fuel, frustration, etc.

Anybody in a labor-based industry should charge based on a combination of going market rates and their ability in their trade. If you're an amazing installer, you should charge more than the guy who can work faster, but at a lower quality. I don't have a ton of experience in vehicle wraps compared to these guys who make it their whole business. So I can't expect to charge what they're charging. At least, not unless I find someone who doesn't know how to shop around.

 

[BALLPARK]

I pay $3 per square foot for certified installers and some of them are considered to be the best at what they do. One person wrapping a dodge sprinter with the roof in one day or a 34 foot box truck in one day.

When you have wrap install only companies charging $3 per sqft that is the market. Im not sure what you're looking for... I guess.

The installers I work with are far better than most seasoned vets. They travel the United States doing many of the projects you could see in mags or just a large fleet project.

Let there be no mistake.... The ink matters and so does the print resolution mode. If you fail to agree to that perhaps you are simply missing my point of what it takes to provide high end wrap projects. If the test prints do not hit the color ranges we are looking to reflect for our client it too is tossed until its right. If there is the slightest of banding we trash the print. I do not believe all cast are equal for sure...

I would not pay an in-house local installers more than 20 bucks per hour. If he gets that then he is a top of the line installer that wants to stay local on installs and do far less work during a week. We don't do enough local installs to warrant a in-house install only crew. Our largest clients are in many of the larger cities in our tri-state area for wraps.

The installers we pay to travel to our clients make much more than that per year. They also travel on average 6 days a week and never see home. Their bank account likes the 100k+, but we are only a small client for them. The company they work for charges us $3 per square foot. We have cut them 15k checks for doing fleet projects for us during one week.

All in all.... Pay them what your company can afford. I will stick with my top 3 installers that do excellent work and have no issue paying the company they work for $3 out of $10 to $15 per square foot we charge.

 

[jfiscus]

Pay your installers and designers well, without them you are just another guy with an expensive printer and a lot of vinyl sitting around. We have two in-house designers here and 4 full-time installers in-house. 3 of them are some of the best installers I've ever seen, and the 4th guy is an installer in training. Yes, we still use quality independent installers and TRY to use quality (through PDAA) out of state installers. HOWEVER, I believe that the customer 90% of the time just expects you to. We choose to use good installers in order to deliver a superior product and to minimize returns/failures/redos. We do a LOT of wraps/installs and also offer a great warranty and have a lot of repeat customers. Occasionally some customers try others based on price point, but most of them come back to use after realizing that "you get what you pay for" most of the time in this industry.

 

[westcoast local]

The bottom line... Money doesnt get made till the vinyl is layed

It doesnt matter how sikkk your designs are if your wrap fails or has seams, patches, squeegy burns or stretch marks all over, if your installer is only wrapping box trucks and trailers and he can do them without having a any downhill graphic slants or bubble feilds/wrinkles or even worse "a reprint" and can crank out volume without worry (whats that worth) now is this the same guy that you can have pull lights out door handles off remove mirrors use primer where it needs to go and not cut up a clients clearcoat all to crap tuck molding etc etc etc is this still a 3$ a sqrft foot guy that your talking about. if a design take 4-8hrs at $500+ whats that a sqrft??? and if your installer is cranking out quality at 6-8 hrs on a chevy express van the money and value is in the installer !
Let the truth be told if it really came down to it an installer can deliver your clients message without a printer n designer with just a cheap 24'' cutter and some 1080 if needed be, if design is at such a high standard like ive been hearing all the time then why arnt you an ad agency making 3k a logo and getting what your worth rebranding small business one after the next for $500+, Dont get me wrong about importance of design being i got in this industry as a graphic designer 10 years ago then realized anyone can run a vector file to rip n print or cut (my 8 yr old son does it when he wants a sticker) on another topic there is a problem how much design is being given away for too cheap ! shop vs shop is driving all these values down not the clients...

Getting back on track and speaking of track think of this like a relay race for money are you going to put an under paid slow guy at the last leg of it all???... and if you dont have a real professional installer in the back of your shop and you only have the 15-20$ hr guy back there then you shouldnt be doing wraps im sorry but clients to pay us to practice on there vehicles... and just because sign shops have access to buying wrap materials doesnt mean all asudden your 15-20$ laminating/banner hemming kid has just became qualified to tear down a ninety thousand dollar suv !
Bottom line Its a Skilled Trade even if you shell out 4k to get certified still doesnt make you an expert but some one should create bench marks according to skill and experience, you do get what you pay for in the end most likely a mutany...

A repsectful loyal skilled and seasoned tradesmen should start no less then $25 an hour to about $75 depending on his work ethics if he knocks a full wrap out in 8hr done right 5 days a week you do the math... money is getting made

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I pay $3 per square foot for certified installers and some of them are considered to be the best at what they do. One person wrapping a dodge sprinter with the roof in one day or a 34 foot box truck in one day.

When you have wrap install only companies charging $3 per sqft that is the market. Im not sure what you're looking for... I guess.

The installers I work with are far better than most seasoned vets. They travel the United States doing many of the projects you could see in mags or just a large fleet project.

Let there be no mistake.... The ink matters and so does the print resolution mode. If you fail to agree to that perhaps you are simply missing my point of what it takes to provide high end wrap projects. If the test prints do not hit the color ranges we are looking to reflect for our client it too is tossed until its right. If there is the slightest of banding we trash the print. I do not believe all cast are equal for sure...

I would not pay an in-house local installers more than 20 bucks per hour. If he gets that then he is a top of the line installer that wants to stay local on installs and do far less work during a week. We don't do enough local installs to warrant a in-house install only crew. Our largest clients are in many of the larger cities in our tri-state area for wraps.

The installers we pay to travel to our clients make much more than that per year. They also travel on average 6 days a week and never see home. Their bank account likes the 100k+, but we are only a small client for them. The company they work for charges us $3 per square foot. We have cut them 15k checks for doing fleet projects for us during one week.

All in all.... Pay them what your company can afford. I will stick with my top 3 installers that do excellent work and have no issue paying the company they work for $3 out of $10 to $15 per square foot we charge.

Sure...paying $3 per sft. for a Sprinter with roof is a decent paying job It's 500 sq.ft. of not very difficult curves and no bumpers. $1500...I'd do those all year long as your employee and sell my business.
How about the Prius at around 170 sft and bumpers. That wold only be $510. I'm pretty sure the Prius isn't going to take 1/3 the time and effort as the Cargo van...but it WILL take more skill with those bumpers and handles and mirrors, etc.

THAT is why I think paying per sq. ft. makes no sense on vehicles unless it's a box truck or trailer. Pay Per Project, with a set product value is the most efficient way. The installer gets what their worth. The quality stays high. You know in advance what it costs you. Everybody WINS.

Also, Nobody said ink doesn't matter. Nobody said print quality doesn't matter. That's a straw man you got going there.
I said the quality of print isn't due to the inks or printer brands. All the major printers and inks can produce quality prints. Also there are quality wraps produced on ALL the major brands of Cast Wrap Vinyl. The print is NOT the element that takes years to master to have a good quality.
Anyone can order a quality printed wrap online or from their nearest metropolitan sign shop. NOT anyone can install the wrap was the point.

If you have in house installers that can pump out quality wraps without being babysat or causing reprints every week and you won't pay them more than $20 per hour....either they don't know the value of the finished product or they haven't got up the nerve to go off on their own....YET.

I hear ya on the work load and not wanting to pay a weed, tape, banner guy that though. I totally get that.

 

[coastguy111]

my thoughts......#1- You have to be able to generate business/consumer leads and close the sale(unless you get all your work from costumers contacting you or through referrals and don't ever have to do any marketing/sales). So this may be more important to a new sign/wrap business trying to get started. Educate them on why its a smart decision to invest in the service/product you provide(this can also include, while rarely, turning away their business)
I (personally) would also plan on doing everything needed (measurements, templates for dimensions and also rough sketched out renderings based on a mix of the customers ideas and my recommendations) in order to be able to provide an accurate quote and close the sale before leaving.
Most importantly, make a great first impression and carry that all the way through (be confident, compliment the customer appropriately, and be in charge while making them feel as if they are) the meeting so that when you ask for their business they don't even hesitate. If you do a real good job, they will sell themselves and be excited about you getting started on their wrap.

#2- Discovery- A term I like to use when initially meeting with a potential or already sold customer. Making sure you have a list of very specific questions for the customer. As well as doing a thorough presentation that would include everything from start to finish. Examples- Explaining design(make recommendations based on the customers vision), differences in wrap options(full/partial/mix) and the pros and cons of each. A little about the install process so that they have no questions or doubt that you will provide a professional service and finished product that will leave no unseen damage to their vehicle(you can also insert here again or for the first time the benefits, like the fact that their new vehicle paint will be protected and like new when they eventually remove the wrap).
If you feel confident enough, you will be able to provide specifics as to why they should spend their money with you and not have to seek out other bids. BUT, DO NOT talk negative about or slander any of your local competitors.

#3- Create a schedule that includes the time to get the graphics rendering done and approved, how many days you will need to have their vehicle(s)-When they will need to drop.
ugh...rest of posted got errased

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

my thoughts......#1- You have to be able to generate business/consumer leads and close the sale(unless you get all your work from costumers contacting you or through referrals and don't ever have to do any marketing/sales). So this may be more important to a new sign/wrap business trying to get started. Educate them on why its a smart decision to invest in the service/product you provide(this can also include, while rarely, turning away their business)
I (personally) would also plan on doing everything needed (measurements, templates for dimensions and also rough sketched out renderings based on a mix of the customers ideas and my recommendations) in order to be able to provide an accurate quote and close the sale before leaving.
Most importantly, make a great first impression and carry that all the way through (be confident, compliment the customer appropriately, and be in charge while making them feel as if they are) the meeting so that when you ask for their business they don't even hesitate. If you do a real good job, they will sell themselves and be excited about you getting started on their wrap.

#2- Discovery- A term I like to use when initially meeting with a potential or already sold customer. Making sure you have a list of very specific questions for the customer. As well as doing a thorough presentation that would include everything from start to finish. Examples- Explaining design(make recommendations based on the customers vision), differences in wrap options(full/partial/mix) and the pros and cons of each. A little about the install process so that they have no questions or doubt that you will provide a professional service and finished product that will leave no unseen damage to their vehicle(you can also insert here again or for the first time the benefits, like the fact that their new vehicle paint will be protected and like new when they eventually remove the wrap).
If you feel confident enough, you will be able to provide specifics as to why they should spend their money with you and not have to seek out other bids. BUT, DO NOT talk negative about or slander any of your local competitors.

#3- Create a schedule that includes the time to get the graphics rendering done and approved, how many days you will need to have their vehicle(s)-When they will need to drop.
ugh...rest of posted got errased

Not trying to be rude, but maybe you meant to post this in a different thread as it is not related to this one that I can see.
This one is about the monetary value of quality wrap installers.
Your list is about pricing wraps and educating clients.
Just sayin.