Contracting with another sign shop

[gnubler]

How does it work? I'm losing too many bigger jobs because I can't find installers, and have been referring the customers to bigger corporate shops in the nearest big city.

I contacted Yesco (national shop) once about handling an installation, with me supplying the sign. It ended up being too expensive, but if it had become a job, what's the process? I assume we would both sign a contract outlining the job details and payment terms - who generates this contract and what all does it cover?

I want to be able to bid on electric sign projects, and have another shop do all the fabrication and installation. How do you explain to your customer when branded trucks and staff from another sign shop show up to do the job? I see listings in the back of Sign of the Times magazines of bigger shops who handle "sign erection and maintenance". I'd like to have some knowledge on the process before I contact them, sounding like I don't know what I'm doing (because I don't).

Also concerned about another shop poaching my customers, I'm sure it happens.

 

[JBurton]

sounding like I don't know what I'm doing (because I don't).

It's cool, literally holler at a few shops, see if they'd be interested in hanging work you've sold as a sub. They'll want COI and something else..., but pretty quickly, just from the person who answers the phone, you'll know whether or not you'll want to work with them.
As for the customers either eyeing the trucks and contacting them direct, that's a matter of contract. You'll want them to sign a non-compete with a 1 year term, and let your customer know you've partnered with CBA sign company for the installation. Don't spend too much time on such a contract, it's almost more important to ask if they'd be willing to sign a NDA with each new project, with a clause prohibiting them from doing the work for client directly.
The way it's typically done, sign company with no trucks but enough knowledge to quote costs for install will secure a contract, then start chasing someone to do all the work within this quoted cost. If not, you'll either need to go back to the customer for more money (no bueno), keep hunting for a cheaper installer, or get some ketchup, eat your hat, and take the hit to the job's bottom line.

 

[Billct2]

Yea, most of those companies that advertise on SOT aren't looking for national accounts. They aren't interested in working with small local shops.
You can try calling some of the medium size local electrical shops, you may get lucky. We had some luck with that but when they got busy our jobs went to the bottom of the list.

 

[gnubler]

Thanks for the info. Can anyone post their contract form/NDA, or an example of the wording? Any templates online?

 

[JBurton]

I got one from the big boys I'll have to review and send ya some time tomorrow.

 

[ikarasu]

There's a company in our area that only does installs... They don't produce signs, they don't sell to customers... They just show up in an unbranded bucket truck and do installs. We keep them busy... Sometimes they're a month out from being able to take a job that they're so busy.

Then we have another guy who just does installs... He drives around in a Mercedes.... He's pretty busy from a ton of shops too.


Then we have a few shops we partner with - find a shop that does led signs and all the other stuff you can't do... Ask for trade pricing. You can't go into it thinking you'll make the same profit.... On some of our jobs we made 10 points, which isn't bad considering you're not touching anything.... On some we make a ton.


Build relationships with shops that specialize in areas you don't - for us it's quid pro quo... We specialize in a ton of stuff our partners don't, and they send just as much work our way as we send theirs.


Always tell a customer you'll quote them on their needs, reach out to 1 or 2 of the shops that you know does good work... Ask for trade pricing, then go back to your client and tnd give them your marked up price. Most will be ok with it.


Maybe it's a us thing - but in Canada we don't do non competes.... I think we've done stuff for a dozen shops and subbed out to dozens of shops, not once has a non compete been involved....

I can think of once on hundreds of installs the customer questioned why xxx sign company is doing the work when they paid for us - all we do is say they're our sister company, they specialize in backlit signage, and handle all our backlits. No one has ever cared.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I did sub contract installs for many local sign companies... large and small. I had an unbranded bucket truck. Worked well for them. Lot of times I would miss a bid and end up doing the install anyway.

Contact the companies with bucket truck and talk to someone there. Tell them you'd like to wholesale out install work. With all the companies I worked for there was nothing official. No paperwork or signing anything. They could contact me and ask how much I'd install something, I'd price it and if I got it they would let me know. For Fast Signs, I was hourly and they got comfortable knowing how long I took to do stuff and they got to the point where I'd show up and they said, "we have 4 installs for ya".

Before I had a bucket truck, I subbed out larger installs to a few of those companies. I just had them quote it like anything else. I wouldn't tell the customer upfront. Right before their order was due for install, I told them "to manage our workload and keep our promised delivery times, we're using one of our local trade partners to complete the install." I didn't like someone else's name going out there, but I was happy with the profit I made from arraigning the job.

I don't offer that service anymore as I'm mostly project management working poolside under the palm trees. I subcontract 95% of fabrication and installs now.

 

[CanuckSigns]

If you figure this out, let me know! Around here if you find a good sub contract installer, you have about 6 months until word gets out and they get more work than they can handle and over book themselves.

I get asked to do electrical stuff so infrequently that it's not worth me quoting it, so I have an agreement with a local electrical shop that I will refer a customer to them, and if they get the job I get a small finders fee. I have enough of my own day to day work to do, I don't need to get into something I know nothing about. You end up being a middle man and spend hours emailing and calling your customer and the vendor asking " the client want to know if it could be done like this"

 

[visual800]

I sub out to larger companies and i do not question their prices. Installing or dealing with lit signs and electrical aint cheap. take their price and add to it what you think is worth for you to make. even if its $500. AND if you pay that compnay in cash trust me they will jump when you call!