newbie, flatbed maintenance question

[artbot]

yeah, white, clear, black, almond. occasionally process color. i'll look into the sericol inks. i've been told here and there that either sericol or triangle was the best way to go. except for triangle seems to want to have a tech do a conversion? same with sericol or is it plug and play. in the end, i'll want to run a spare line to the black channel for sure to put anything from tinted clears to the left over milk in my cereal bowl (just to see what happens). so the 200s and 320s are chipped? for a small shop like mine getting into flatbed printing one of these would be a safe starting point. i figure plus shipping and install i have under 50k to work with. i know that's pennies for a large shop. but i'm just a dude in a house and sell about 10-20k gross a month. if the partner situation looks like a good fit, i'll have more like 120k.

below you can see that in my line, i don't use much color:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157627003554345/show/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157626414222282/show/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157625855017852/show/

 

[animenick65]

Our flatbed runs 5 to 6 days a week has always performed it's best when it was run consistently.

Our experience with VUTEks is the same way. It seams like the more we run them and beat on them, the better they run. We run ours 7 days a week, sometimes 24 hours a day. We average 101K sq. ft. a month printed and out the door. Last year we did 800K sq. ft.

 

[cwb143]

Thats good business. In 2 more hours I will have done 8000 sqft. for one job. total of 60 hours for the week.

 

[particleman]

Artbot, check out the hp fb 500/700 series, very easy to operate. Like others have said all automated cleaning. We've ran the 500 since feb and have been happy with it. Pm me if you have any questions about it. This machine is a good deal for the price point.

Our agfa m we used to have you could put solvent in the heads for extended off use

 

[artbot]

i'm definitely going to look at the hps at the show. they look very well designed. i'd be afraid with such a nice machine that i'd be dealing with warranty issues as soon as i started to modify it in any way. that said, it has much better color capabilities than i need. not that that his a bad thing. i'm mostly wanting to find a machine that is very modifiable. ...has lot's of lamp options, can really blaze down loads of ink, somewhat simple construction, will allow 3rd party and custom spot inks.

 

[cdiesel]

We're very happy with our FB950. The new 500 & 700 with white ink would suit your niche well I think (nice work by the way!). I'd be weary of modifying it though. I've asked Triangle about inks for our system for the past couple of years, and they say it's a no-go. They have been unable to break the chips.

On the upside, the machine is very easy to operate, and doesn't require a bunch of maintenance. It runs its own purges & wipes, and only really requires a weekly manual wipe of the heads. Some minor other stuff like cleaning encoder strip and rails, but you're probably looking at about an hour or so a month.

 

[Dave Rowland]

we have the agfa anapurna m2050, its pretty good so far... however, the colours heads do cap but its not that much of a seal, its just to cover them to try and stop the fluid dropping out of the heads, in theory lol.

The White head, thats a different beast altogether, I am on the new G3 white ink and that is much better then the G2, however you have to keep the damn ink circulating as it can seize up quickly, so u have to nurse it a little.

I see your photos show white printed, my advice is only to buy a white machine if you are really ready to sell a lot of white ink. The colour side is easy to use.

The cost of purging white ink and even printing is a lot, it does use a lot up.

So, i wish you the success but if you cant keep the printer running day in day out, then do buy one.

 

[artbot]

"then do buy one."? you mean don't right? there's no way in my work that machine will every be run every day. that's the reason for the thread originally. i need very wide, non-pinch roller printing for substrates around 3/4". for my work, it doesn't particularly have to be uv. just need a machine that handles sheets better that what i've got.

and i never leave white in the head. as soon as i'm done, i run straight butyl carbitol (have a permenant cleaning cart) to the head and purge the line backward with acetone. that's not possible for a busy shop.

for me, a cmykX2 printer that i run white and clear to the black channel is a better more productive set up. that's what i do with my jv3. the left side carts are cmyk, the right side carts are clear and white and cleaner (you don't need two dampers per dx4 head, i use one with a splitter). there are a few "+W" models out there, which look like a good option. but white should never sit in the head, or in the lines for more than a few hours by my experience.

 

[signswi]

To be blunt artbot you'll probably have to get away from your hacking ways when you get into flatbeds. You're used to a JV3 which is a raw machine you can mess around with but anything built in the past few years isn't going to be nearly so friendly to modifications, especially on the flatbed front. For the most part that's a really good thing--for example with the HP machines, flatbed and roll to roll, you wouldn't want to do anything that could compromise the ability of the OMAS sensors to do their job or any of the other automated quality controls. Not to mention you're dealing with a completely different ink delivery and head system than you're used to and most likely very different inks as well (meaning you may not be able to create inks for custom spot colors quite as easily).

 

[artbot]

@signswi that is why i'm asking around. i can always get a jv33 mounted to a flatbed for $50k and it would probably be a dream to work on and maintain. my business isn't a "printing" business. what i do is specialized surfaces. i cringe when i have to run a four color job. i may stagger the heads/callibration in my next machine to create a monochrome printer (running just one color from the head and run in single pass only). plus i can always run the final prints through a uv web in the end to snap up the cure if a custom ink has a finicky wavelength. i've already built my own diy uv casting/coating machine for my digi-glass line. so i know my way around discussing formulas and have a good relationship with a lab. plus a spot color would only be the factory white mixed with the other cmyks but loaded into the spot colo line. with my clients, if it looks inkjet, they don't want it. so i try to make my pieces look screen printed.

i saw this primitive grapo octopus (really cheap used printer). even that looked perfect just because it looked like it had room for modification. i don't need an indy car to print with, i need an cnc fluid squirting machine.

 

[www.esigns.com]

i need an cnc fluid squirting machine.

gandi jeti 1224. Perfect Lego with room

 

[biggce55]

Yes, 10 heads. Recent problems with Gandi\Agfa ink killed 6 heads alone in 1 swoop. Sericol Magenta ink issues killed another 2 so far. So 2 left for the tear and wear. What surpirses you? I'm sure if you used Gandi ink you had to expereince the same.

I dont care there the heads are made. Spectra heads will cost you $2500 from the dealer (agfa), or $1000 from chineese vendors shipping from over seas.

.

Get some Nazdar 7470 ink for your Gandi, works great! We've gone through 20 heads in 4 years, but most of those were do to Polymeric ink . Since switching to Nazdar its been smooth sailing! We also swap out head if 3-5 nozzles are not firing cause we are doing high end POP.

 

[johnnysigns]

What was your beef w/ the Polymeric stuff? I'm having some very strange issues with dark black with their ink right now and it's getting frustrating. We're using they're bendable inks and while that performance is excellent, there seems to be some great inconsistencies in different batches of their inks.