Pricing?

[_Neil]

Posting here rather than the noob forum as I expect there will be differences for the Edge. I have been asked for and am doing a few side jobs for others with my FX and GSxPlus, and wondering what's fair pricing.

So far, I've only charged double my material costs, and have not factored in for any time. A 4-color process works out to around $8/ft (at the usual 11.8" across). I've seen a vast difference in pricing formulas, so wondering what's fair for printing on an Edge. I've asked for color-separated vector files, which I get just as I would like, and only add an outline for cutting, so time has not been significant so far.

But I recently quoted a price for someone and they pointed me to being able to get it far cheaper online, on what I suppose is ink-based printers. Not sure how to justify that to the customers, other than being able to get it faster w/no shipping etc.

So what's a fair pricing for FX-printed graphics, and how do you justify that to the customers? Also, do you adjust for quicker turnaround?

Thanks.

 

[Fred Weiss]

If your clients are saying your prices are too high, they are comparing them to competitors who don't price well and/or are geared for printing large sizes like banners and such. The Edge is geared for small sizes such as decals and labels where material costs are less important and are mostly one or two spot colors ... not four color process. At $8 a running foot, you are at best breaking even by the time you count in any kind of reasonable overhead and labor. More likely, you are losing money.

If your are trying to compete with inkjets at larger size and volume rates, you're in for a lot of frustration. But if you are producing smaller labels and print/cut decals, you are in a niche that is more about the cost per unit and the specific appeal of Edge printing. For example, if you are running 2" x 3" PNC items in two spot colors, you will get a yield of about 20 per running foot. Using cast vinyl and quality foils, your costs should be $2 a foot or less ... or less than 10 cents each. Selling them at .40 to .50 each (depending on the size of the order) in quantity should be no problem and you will be getting a profitable return on your time and investment. If they are four color process, then your costs will be in the .15 to .20 range and your selling price should be in the .60 to 1.00 range per unit.

Here's an example of a PNC that measures just under 4" square. It nests 3 high and yields 9 per foot. The art is supplied by the customer. We sell them to the customer for $2.46 each ($22.14 per foot) using four color process plus clear UV/Abrasion Guard overprint on 3M 220 premium vinyl. Please note that the image is a screen shot from within Omega Composer. The actual print looks much nicer.

 

[_Neil]

Yes, this is what I'm finding out, that I can't compete with the big sticker companies (assuming inkjet). Here's an example I did recently, similar to yours but process colors:

3" circular, 200 pcs. 3 vertically x 21 feet to get 200 pcs. Process foils.
Using pricing from Hyatts (though I purchase locally), Oracal 651 is ~$90 (factoring in for shipping also) for 50yds, so $0.60/ft. Process foils are ~$110 for 45m each, so $0.75/ft. So my cost for each foot = $3.54, or $0.37/pc. FWIW, the only processing I'm doing here is importing a vector file and adding a cut outline. So I just doubled it at $8/ft.

All 200 = $75 (my cost). A quick check of 200 custom decals at psprint (just a company I use for brochures) shows $59, or say $70 shipped (or $0.35/pc). That's still less than my $75 cost, and that's still not yet accounting for machine wear-and-tear and my labor.

Yes, process costs are better, but I still run up to 3 spot colors on some decals.

Only thing I'm unsure of is how you're getting those costs for cast. My research shows it to be about double the cost of calendered. But I'm not buying in volume.

 

[Fred Weiss]

A few suggestions ...

Nest tighter to reduce the amount of materials used. Those 200 3" circles can easily be run in less than 18 feet including gaps.

Recommend height break points that will increase your vertical nest and pass the savings on in your quote. In your example, a 2.875" circle will nest 4 high instead of 3 high and will require about 4 to 5 feet less material.

Look into Apex foil refills from Advantage Sign and Graphic Solutions in Tampa. They are equal in quality and durability to Gerber and cost 35% to 40% less.

Look into switching to Oracal 751 and also using Apex UV/Abrasion Guard clear overprint for any prints that will be in outdoor use. Doing so will give you an extremely durable product (minimum 3 years to 5 years plus) which will give you an excellent selling point against competitors. I can tell you from experience that Edge prints on Oracal 651 have an average outdoor life that is measured in months ... not years.

Stop thinking you have to match the volume internet order prices and price what you do based on what you need to get to make a reasonable return on your time and investment. If you can't do that, you're going to lose money anyway so you might as well try.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I do both edge printing and wide format. You will never compete on price with an edge printer doing more than 1 colour, however for doing 1 colour decals such as pipe markers and safety labels is where the edge is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[_Neil]

Yes, I am going to use UV guard for generic decals I make, but product decals have held up for years w just Oracal 651. Examples... the circular decal and the trapezoid on this package...

And decals like this, which would be hidden in the dash of a car...

I've heard that zeronine foils have issues (not sure what issues though), but wasn't aware of Apex... will look them up. And for black I'll stick with Gerber Jet Black, as I purchased this printer specifically because of that foil, so I can get very dark black on clear, so it blocks light from behind. Summa's printer did a very nice job, but required 3 layers of print to get the same dark black.

Stop thinking you have to match the volume internet order prices...

You will never compete on price with an edge printer doing more than 1 colour, however for doing 1 colour decals such as pipe markers and safety labels is where the edge is worth it's weight in gold.

Yep... Learning this. My goal isn't to be in the sign/decal business, but it's nice to justify the purchase of this printer. I'll say again though that the convenience has been priceless. We were up late the night before going to this trade show, and printed just about everything here (except the top banner which I had from before) on the FX. If we had to plan and figure out every single decal in advance to get it done elsewhere, we would've been in trouble.

Thanks!