18oz herculite banner shredded - city installed - how to handle?

[FatCat]

Made a 4' x 20' double sided banner with 18 oz Bantex Herculite earlier this year. Banner was printed both sides, sewn all sides with 1" webbing for reinforcement. Just found out it was shredded last Friday due to some high winds.

The tricky part is that I didn't install this, the city did. Come to find out instead of using cable top and bottom with clips they only have 1 cable across the top and then tied off each bottom corner of the banner to the telephone poles where it is hung. From what I heard, grommets held, edges held but the banner tore itself to shreds - most likely from wind-whip due to not having proper tension/support across the bottom. In fact, an eye-witness said they saw the banner actually flipped/looped over itself a time or two when the storm started. Which tells me they didn't really even have tension on the bottom end of the banner in any case.

They're wanting to point fingers at the material I used saying it wasn't strong enough. Don't really know of anything stronger than the 18oz Bantex??? They brought in a sample made from someone else and this stuff feels 2-3x as thick. I don't know for sure but I am assuming it is some kind of billboard material?

I've been paid, I am 100% certain the fault lies with the install - but as they say you can't fight city hall... Part of me wants to tell them they did the install - they're responsible. But, I really don't like to burn bridges - but at the same time I really feel I did the best I could with what I had available to me.

Anybody else have a problem with the Bantex failing like this?

Advice on how you would handle this?

I need a

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

GO BUCKS! FatCat, confirm with Bantex the "wind rating" for the banner. What written or implied warranty did you give to the customer? The remains of Hurricane Opal roared through Atlanta in October 1995. The storm shredded the angle iron sign frames and banners we had produced and installed for Georgia Tech as the housing site for the 1996 Summer Olympics. Tech understood the effects of the storm and had the signs and frames re-built and re-installed by us (they paid again).

 

[300mphGraphics]

I tell them every grommet hole must be used for proper installation. They are there for a reason and if it wasn't installed properly, you can't be held responsible. I'd offer a nice discount on a replacement banner to hopefully keep the city happy.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Bantex 18oz is about as strong as it gets, there may be thicker material out there but you'll be hard pressed to find something with a much heavier scrim in it.

The installation is definitely the culprit. If a banner is allowed to flap or whip around in the wind it's only a matter of time before it starts to come apart. Think of it like sheet aluminum. It's rigid, but if you sit there and bend it back and forth over and over it's going to snap in half. Just because banner material is flexible doesn't mean it can stand up to hours and hours of whipping around.

A banner that big needs cables tightly stretched top and bottom, and the banner needs to be clipped to it every 2-3 feet and tied off as tight as possible at the corners. It needs to have zero flop or sag and needs to be as tightly stretched as possible. Otherwise this will happen. If they think securing the top only and then just tieing off the two bottom corners is enough to keep a 4x20' banner tight in even a moderate breeze then they are about as dumb as it gets. Not to mention it's a massive safety liability having a banner that big poorly anchored above a busy roadway.

You need to put, in very clear writing, exactly how they need to hang the banner and how to remedy their current mounting method. If a banner you make fails because of their piss-poor mounting and should happen to cause an accident, they're going to try to hang you out to dry on it.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Oh yeah, GO BUCKS!

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

O-H-I-O +1 The liability issue canNOT be ignored. If you think the banner was "...flappin' the wind..." Don't wait to see what happens to you if a "piss poor" installation causes an accident and/or a fatality...aaaggghhh!!!

 

[signage]

Here is a link to a thread that has the Federal Highway specs for over the road banners!

If you did not follow this then you just may be liable if the next one fails and someone get injured!

 

[FatCat]

No, I did not give any kind of warranty - expressed or implied.

I did mention beforehand how I SUGGEST they hang it, with cables top and bottom. But I am sure they feel they know it all, and therefore my comments fell on deaf ears. Again, I am certain the install is to blame - not my banner construction. It just stinks that they're looking to point a finger at something/one and immediately it has to be me, not their lackeys who installed the darn thing.

 

[qmr55]

No, I did not give any kind of warranty - expressed or implied.

I did mention beforehand how I SUGGEST they hang it, with cables top and bottom. But I am sure they feel they know it all, and therefore my comments fell on deaf ears. Again, I am certain the install is to blame - not my banner construction. It just stinks that they're looking to point a finger at something/one and immediately it has to be me, not their lackeys who installed the darn thing.

City workers

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

Take this to the city

Here is a link to a thread that has the Federal Highway specs for over the road banners!

If you did not follow this then you just may be liable if the next one fails and someone get injured!

+1 Print out this document and carry it to the CITY. I would also email a copy to that person's boss, as well as their person in charge of "loss prevention". You may perceive this as overkill because the city needs the banner replaced and re-installed. However, if you come to terms and re-do the job, the INSTALL must be done according to code (NO SHORTCUTS).

 

[FatCat]

I looked at that link, and while I have no problem with showing them that I BUILT the banner correctly, there is nothing there that shows how to PROPERLY HANG IT.

Anyone have a link for proper/federal regulated over-the-road installation of a large banner?

 

[signage]

Could not find fed rules but hear is one to look at:
Across-street banners

For across-street banners, suggests running metal cables across the road to attach the banner with snap hooks mounted across the top and bottom of the banner's length. For stability, he recommends also attaching bungee cords in each corner, which attach to poles or buildings on either side of the street. He said 3 x 30 ft. is his maximum size suggested for across a street.

 

[300mphGraphics]

I've been round and round with the city too. Windslits was one of them as they insisted. I figured the town engineer would love the wind load calculations I showed them, didn't matter. They're just covering their asses.

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

I bet ODOT has the regulations

 

[Billct2]

That link shows how our city requires the banners be made.
They install them on a cable across the top with bungees at bottom two corners.
I actually make them even better than that.
And I've had banners that shred themselves in a violent wind anyhow.
The point is banners are TEMPORARY signs, with no guarantee against weather damage,
no matter how they're installed.