3M-Laminate 8518 3yr durability??????

[the east coast kid]

Maney of you out there swear by the 3M stuff but I wonder why when the life is only 3yrs.
Or at least that is what 3M states.
I have always used the Oracal 290 they claim 8yr outdoor life!

Also I use it on 3m,Avery 1005 ez rs super cast, & of-cours Oracal.



Looking for real world time tested feedback.

Thanks All.

 

[the east coast kid]

All the posts swearing by the 3m with 3m combo over all else is making me nervious.
And I am about to wrap like 5 vans for a local guy and want to have trouble free years of happy cust, & was going to use the Avery with the Oracal290.

I gues Im second guessing my self on this one.

 

[Signco Inc]

I personally swear by 3m with matching overlam. If you are nervous doesn't oracle have something where you can register your job and print your warranty for that job? May help you sleep better at night. My biggest piece of advice is educate the customer and let him make the decision.

 

[ProWraps]

your gonna use avery, and your nervous about 3M!!!

 

[BigfishDM]

your gonna use avery, and your nervous about 3M!!!

 

[the east coast kid]

I understand your points, but none of this addresses the life of said laminent.


I would use Oracal with Oracal but the darn adheseve is to aggressive even the RA

 

[petesign]

3 year probably has something to do with the gloss finish. Their luster and matte finish cast laminates are rated for 5 years. Maybe the gloss heats up more in sunlight, or allows more of the harmful rays through, who knows. 3m cast laminate is 2 mil thick.. how thick is the oracal? Do you think this will affect ease of installation?

 

[Bigdawg]

The laminates are pretty interchangeable to be honest. We used to use the 3mIJ180 with the 290 laminate because we used 290 on everything else that was cast and didn't see a reason to not.

The reason to not is the difference between covering your a$$ and not covering it. If your 3m/290 combo fails... you are out of pocket to correct it. No responsibility on either Oracal or 3M's part to cover it because you didn't use the right combo. The cost in my case was just pennies difference and personally I could care less that 290 has an 8-year warranty on it for the wraps... we sell wraps as a 3-5 year solution anyway...

 

[the east coast kid]

The Oracal is 2 mil gloss also.
I find the 3M to be far more agressive than the Avery EZ RS
And the air channels in th 3M trap weird long bubbles on occasion.
Slows the install & with the prices people are wrapping for these days you need to save time.

 

[ProWraps]

The Oracal is 2 mil gloss also.
I find the 3M to be far more agressive than the Avery EZ RS
And the air channels in th 3M trap weird long bubbles on occasion.
Slows the install & with the prices people are wrapping for these days you need to save time.

dont use v3. stick to the original 180. as far as 8 years....

good luck with any product lasting 8 years. no matter what the manufacturer says. the media wont last that long, so why worry about the lam lasting that long?

it will brown out on horizontal surfaces LONG before 8 years.

 

[the east coast kid]

Yes but it would be nice to get 5yrs out of side pannel applications,& the 3M 8518 is not rated for that even!

I know the hood will fail quickly.

No matter who you use.

 

[ProWraps]

8518 hasnt been out for 5 years. dont expect 3M to give it a 5 year designation until it has.

 

[GraphixUnlimited]

we have used them all and although the 3M can have a bit more tack ( or so i find ) i have had nothing but awesome things to say about it!!! 8518 all the way here, until something better comes along

cheers eh

 

[speedmedia]

8518 hasnt been out for 5 years. dont expect 3M to give it a 5 year designation until it has.

+++++1 This is ture, they cannot tell you how long something is going to last until it has been out that long. I have never had a failure on the materials part from either Oracal or 3M or Avery wrap vinyl for that matter. All others steer clear from. Even if it has an 8 yr claim I typically tell the customer t expect a 3-5 year life cycle (Best worst case based on how it is taken care of and what elements it is exposed to.)

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[petrosgraphics]

have you looked at 3M 8519 lam......it is our choice.......

 

[Premier Wraps]

Stick with all Avery. Write down the batch numbers on both the lam and vinyl. It's located on the end of the box. Give your customer those numbers on his invoice. There's their warranty right there. 5 years if you use the 2.1 and 4 years if you use the 1.5. Check the product bulletin regarding where you live. Avery asks for a 20% reduction in life in certain parts of the country. We use the 2.1 and are in an area in So Cal that is reduced 20%. We offer a 4year written warranty because the lot numbers go on every invoice. No warranty on vinyl laid in a horizontal position. (ie: hood, roof & trunk) If you use different manufactures how are you going to get a warranty out of the manufacture? There's nothing wrong with Avery's lam. Their new stuff is glossier then 3M. Not even sure it's out yet. We did some test with it and it's unreal how glossy it is.

 

[Premier Wraps]

Also. We supply with each invoice a sheet showing when the vinyl was printed. When it was laminated (to show outgassing) what printer it was printed on and even the type of ink. Along with an install date and a check box area that's it's been post heated. Every bit of info right there if there was ever a need for a warranty claim.

 

[Gene@mpls]

So... has Avery started warrantying their products? Serious- after all
the bad PR for years- is there evidence that they have flopped over a
new leaf? I have never used Avery, but have heard much.

 

[johnnysigns]

I still EEk whenever I see Avery sworn by in here from time to time. My sense is these people never dealt w/ the TRAINWRECK that it was to deal with Avery when they had their rash of failures. I was doing fleet graphics at the time and we'd cut thousands of linear feet that failed. You know what it is to go and strip 120 trailers from just a single customer that got snubbed and replace it all w/ 3M? let alone the 20 or 30 or so we had to deal with? Probably not.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

So... has Avery started warrantying their products? Serious- after all
the bad PR for years- is there evidence that they have flopped over a
new leaf? I have never used Avery, but have heard much.

ohh they flopped alright

 

[AUTO-FX]

I think it was right after this thread that I got a PM from an Avery guy who wanted to talk about Avery products. Obviously they monitor this board, but have allowed many opportunities to clear anything up slip by.

 

[Premier Wraps]

We got burned really bad by the old Avery. Jumped from manufacture to manufacture looking for something that worked. We used 3M for a long time. Really like the V2. When 3M came out with V3 is when it went down hill for us. To have a manufacture tell me what's best for me bugs me. Along with the whole Primer 94 thing. If the stuff is that good, how come we have to use an adhesive promoter? The new Supercast Avery is more conformable then the 380 and it sticks. To each their own. If someone swears by 3M then that's their call. We personally don't use it. Haven't had one wrap come back that's done in Avery. When done right it's not going to fail.

 

[Premier Wraps]

I think it was right after this thread that I got a PM from an Avery guy who wanted to talk about Avery products. Obviously they monitor this board, but have allowed many opportunities to clear anything up slip by.

Wouldn't surprise me if Avery does monitor the boards. They want to be the best. By monitor different boards they learn from what the end user likes. That's why they came us (end users) and asked what we wanted in a vinyl. After listen to people they went to work. After getting the print quality issues worked out they then tackled the rest. After more feed back they came out with the Supercast line. Then they went to work on the laminate. And from someone that's used the new lam, it's amazing.