Need Help "Color matching" using two different printers

[Bryce I]

This is a fun one. We're in the middle of a full wrap on a big food truck. About half of it was printed, when our 12 year old Roland XC-540 took a dump. Needs parts and a tech can't get to us for a while. It's looking like we're gong to need to finish the job on our 2 year old Roland True Vis VG-540. They're not connected to the same RIP software. The old one uses an outdated version of VersaWoks and the new one uses an updated VersaWorks 6, and just completed the TU-2 upgrade. Printing the same file with the same profile & quality settings (ex: generic vinyl 2, PrePress General), the two printers produce vastly different prints. Where one gives a popping red, the other will have more orange or pink. I don't know anything about color adjustment in VersaWorks. If a test print isn't giving the desired color, we usually try a different profile, or a designer adjusts it in Illustrator.
Right now, I'm just printing chunks on the new printer, trying different profiles, and cycling through the color presets, hoping one will be close enough. Any tips or insights would be appreciated. Thanks Ya'll!

 

[Boudica]

If I were in your shoes... I would start with a grid - with variations of the target color... pick the version that matches it and change the color in the artwork accordingly. Unless your (now) rip is Onyx... you can change colors in there.

 

[netsol]

this sounds to me like a colorcrest question.
i could loan you an xrite I1 pro, so you can build a profile for the unacceptable printer
but i am not sure how you color match to a dead printer (seance?)

i know you had a lot of problems with the printer recently.
did you happen to printout any color charts lately?

i am relatively inexperienced in our field, compared to many of you.
i do have considerable experience with color matching (silver based photo printing)

this gives me just enough experience to know you will not get an identical red ( not close enough to print the other half of the wrap)

 

[Jim Hancock]

Colorcrest will hopefully chime in and agree or not with my assessment. You are trying to match two print systems that only have two thing in common, the name Roland and the vinyl. I am not a color scientist by any means, but I've been profiling, both as an independent and for an ink manufacturer, for almost 20 years with multiple printers brands, RIPs, profiling softwares, spectrophotometers, ink sets and medias. Color matching 2 different systems such as yours will be reasonably successful if both printers are working and you custom profile both of them. Even then, they will both print with great color, but one will be better than the other due to the ink color gamut differences. Matching a down printer, I wouldn't want to tackle it, and I love technical challenges!

My advice to you is to reprint the wrap sections done on the XC-540. You will spend literally hours trying to color match the XC-540 and probably won't get everything perfect and will become very frustrated. If it is completely vector data, it might be possible, if it's a bitmap, not so easy. If you do try, I wish you luck and patience!

 

[Jim Hancock]

i do have considerable experience with color matching (silver based photo printing

Ah, the wet days! Spent 16 years as an industrial photographer, C-41, E6, EP2, Dektol, Super Chromega DII, the smell of fixer on your fingers... sound familiar? Even though I loved it, I'll take Photoshop everytime...

 

[netsol]

jim
in 1966 i was 12 or 13.
built a darkroom & started processing b/w at home in basement

then i decided i wsnted to do color slide film at home (not kodachrome, of course(
they said you can't do it, you need +/- 1 degree temp control

i bought little circulation pumps from edmund scientific catalog & aquarium pumps. it was not +/- 1. degree but it worked.

i remember having my father write a check & waiting 30 days for the package to come from edmund. (not unlike what happens when amazon delivery loses my package today)

i would do a junior high school project & print and mount my illustrations ( remember, there were no copiers, back then). no one else turned in a project like mine

 

[Val47]

In high school, circa mid-late eighties... the year book was my thing - all 3 years of HS, and I also took photography. I later spent a semester as a TA for photography - showing a new class how to develop negatives and print the pictures. It feels so ancient now. Just thinking about it, makes me want to take it all up again... that would be an investment though. got to find an old camera! However... I do have access to a lot of (old) printable negatives and such, maybe start there.

 

[Jim Hancock]

I did it backwards from the usual path. Shot & processed Ektachrome and printed & processed Cibachrome. Still have a Ciba I printed in 1978, hasn't faded one bit. Fantastic material...

 

[netsol]

i still have a nikon FG, a rolleiflex and a speed graphic and gossen lunapro SOMEWHERE upstairs...

i still use the lunapro, occasionally

26 years ago, a friend (he used to be the east coast KODAK rep), started his own business selling/brokering used photolabs (think opening a motophoto franchise) . he asked me if i could repair them. i said " if you show me a working one, i can". worked with him for 3 years

he sold one to a business in provincetown. the EPA came in to do chemical testing. looking for silver, going in the waste water. the silver recovery unit was so efficient they couldn't detect ANYTHING in the water coming out of the machines. in spite of that, all water had to be collected in 55 gallon drums & trucked away. very expensive . that was the end of regular silver based photography, everything became digital

 

[signheremd]

In Roland VersaWorks you can make some Color Adjustments - though you have little real control. In VersaWorks, open Job Settings, next click on the Color Adjustment tab it gives you slide bars for Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black, Contrast, and Brightness. You can add +5 or minus 5 to each. There is also a button to access Tone Curves, called Edit Tone Curves which will allow you to make some changes. Thing is, you will want to write down what you used so you can duplicate if you ever need to. (We are running Roland VersaWorks Dual version 1.6.11) Just reduce the size in the layout tab and print some samples altering various sliders 9and record what you changed...).

Reprinting the job is my suggestion though - far easier to have it match and if you need a new panel you won't have color issues. But I hope that helps.

 

[Geneva Olson]

In high school, circa mid-late eighties... the year book was my thing - all 3 years of HS, and I also took photography. I later spent a semester as a TA for photography - showing a new class how to develop negatives and print the pictures. It feels so ancient now. Just thinking about it, makes me want to take it all up again... that would be an investment though. got to find an old camera! However... I do have access to a lot of (old) printable negatives and such, maybe start there.

I have a metal negative cannister to develop the film in. I also have an old Cannon AE1. Just needs a battery. I LOVED photography. I was on photography/yearbook/newspaper staff in high school. I also took a class in college. I miss the old technology.