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Curing Issues ACM HP R2000

J

jallison25

New Member
Hi everybody,

I have been having curing/ink adhesion issues with ACM for a little while now. I've been in touch with HP's application specialists quite a few times and even had the manufacturer visit our shop and try to help us to no avail. Ink seems to adhere fine when we do our small scale test (12" X 12") but when we move up to our full scale size (4ft X 12ft) ink comes off with lamination cleanly and almost completely. I've tried a lot off setting but nothing seems to help. Details are listed below. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Material:

Piedmont Plastics
Alupoly Digital Plus ACM

Printer

HP R2000

Settings.PNG
 
balstestrat

balstestrat

Problem Solver
Have you let it sit 24hours after printing? What do you mean "ink comes off with lamination"? Do you apply laminate on it?
I would change to different brand ACM.

To me it would seem that the coating is not working well with latex ink. Only other thing would be that the ink is not cured properly but you would see if it's wet/oily.
 
J

jallison25

New Member
balstestrat said:
Have you let it sit 24hours after printing? What do you mean "ink comes off with lamination"? Do you apply laminate on it?
I would change to different brand ACM.

To me it would seem that the coating is not working well with latex ink. Only other thing would be that the ink is not cured properly but you would see if it's wet/oily.
Click to expand...
Yes sorry I was unclear. We do laminate the print after it sits for 24 to 48 hours. Tried Max Metal but it did the same thing.
 
balstestrat

balstestrat

Problem Solver
You are doing too much overcoat (1.0) on it if you are laminating it. Should be as close to 0.0 as possible. Maybe you want to add just tiny bit against scratching while moving the board but still 1.0 too much.

Only other thing I can come up with like I said, maybe the ink is not really 100% cured. You could try to clean your curing modules.
And lower the vacuum on the curing, it doesn't need "1300" on that zone. Say "300" is fine.
 
J

jallison25

New Member
balstestrat said:
You are doing too much overcoat (1.0) on it if you are laminating it. Should be as close to 0.0 as possible. Maybe you want to add just tiny bit against scratching while moving the board but still 1.0 too much.

Only other thing I can come up with like I said, maybe the ink is not really 100% cured. You could try to clean your curing modules.
And lower the vacuum on the curing, it doesn't need "1300" on that zone. Say "300" is fine
Click to expand...
 
J

jallison25

New Member
balstestrat said:
You are doing too much overcoat (1.0) on it if you are laminating it. Should be as close to 0.0 as possible. Maybe you want to add just tiny bit against scratching while moving the board but still 1.0 too much.

Only other thing I can come up with like I said, maybe the ink is not really 100% cured. You could try to clean your curing modules.
And lower the vacuum on the curing, it doesn't need "1300" on that zone. Say "300" is fine.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how to properly clean the curing modules other than sliding the unit out but I cannot reach all of it.
 
balstestrat

balstestrat

Problem Solver
You have to open em up and take out the heater, then clean the holes etc. But only if the unit has seen some use. If it's quite new then it's probably not dirty.
Anyway easy to check below first if the holes look clean or if there's stuff blocking some.

1715169712725.png
 
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J

jallison25

New Member
balstestrat said:
You have to open em up and take out the heater, then clean the holes etc. But only if the unit has seen some use. If it's quite new then it's probably not dirty.
Anyway easy to check below first if the holes look clean or if there's stuff blocking some.
Click to expand...

thanks, I just finished cleaning them running to diag to make sure i didnt miss anything.

I can understand lowering the OC but will lowering the vacuum do anything for me?
 
balstestrat

balstestrat

Problem Solver
Yes when you run the vacuum on full you just keep on sucking the hot air down and out of the printer. ACM is sturdy, it's pointless to have so much vacuum on the curing section.
 
Last edited:
dasigndr

dasigndr

Premium Subscriber
we have had this same issue for years with our HP5400 series and our HP FB750. We tried EVERYTHING. The only "work around" is when you laminate that you leave approx. 3/4" of OL all around and then wrap it around to the back.
It seals the edges and prevents the laminate from lifting the ink off the ACM. It is a little extra work but well worth it.
 
G

greysquirrel

New Member
If laminating you need almost no overcoat. Is the laminate pealing off the edges of the arm? How can much tension is on film when applying? You should use cast film on arch. What is the ink coverage? Is it black background? Did you make a custom profile or are you using a canned profile?
 
J

jallison25

New Member
greysquirrel said:
If laminating you need almost no overcoat. Is the laminate pealing off the edges of the arm? How can much tension is on film when applying? You should use cast film on arch. What is the ink coverage? Is it black background? Did you make a custom profile or are you using a canned profile?
Click to expand...
The Profile shown above was recommended by a HP application specialist. It's almost 1to1 with the generic profile. the drying temp is higher than the canned profile. The image is a full flood woodgrain pattern. It gets CNC routed and bent. The laminate is applied on a rolls roller. As far as tension I am not sure. It is 3m 8520 Matte Lam and is a cast lam.
 
J

jallison25

New Member
dasigndr said:
we have had this same issue for years with our HP5400 series and our HP FB750. We tried EVERYTHING. The only "work around" is when you laminate that you leave approx. 3/4" of OL all around and then wrap it around to the back.
It seals the edges and prevents the laminate from lifting the ink off the ACM. It is a little extra work but well worth it.
Click to expand...
That idea was floated but not implemented. After talking to the manufacture they said they have had successful testing on the R2000. Not sure what kind of environment the test were conducted in though.
 
T

ToTo

Professional Support
Curing of 120% ink plus 35% OP at 185F in 6 pass won’t work well. I would reduce OP to 25%, set curing to 200F and reduce drying to 140F.
 
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