eco sol max ink life span?

[Signed Out]

How long will eco sol max ink really last? Updating my pricing strategy and think i may have been going overboard the past 2 years. We tend to use oracal 3951 for most of our ACM signs. It's a 10 year vinyl but if eco sol max ink is only fade resistant for 5 years then should I have been using a high performance calandered such as 3551? I know it all depends on the environment, I'm in upstate NY... Will cast vinyl outlive eco sol max ink?

If I'm doing indoor signs can I get away with cheaper calandered vinyl? I know it will shrink overtime, but would a coroplast sign last about as long printed on 3641 compared to being printed on 3551?

 

[Speedsterbeast]

I have been using 3551 with 210 lam with my eco-sol inks.
They seem to have a close match in lifespan for most outdoor signage.
I've only been in the printing side for 8 months, but I expect to get 4 years minimum out of the combination.

 

[Gino]

Based on many conditions and calculations.... between 3 and 6 years with everything going right.

 

[Signed Out]

Gino,
would you say then that printing on a 10 year cast vinyl with eco sol max ink is a waste for a flat outdoor sign. I want my products to last as long as possbile and to look good but I also dont want to over charge or use unnecessaryily expensive materials. Correct me if I'm wrong but the ink's life span will be the same on a calandered vinyl as on a cast vinyl.

 

[Gino]

Gino,
would you say then that printing on a 10 year cast vinyl with eco sol max ink is a waste for a flat outdoor sign. I want my products to last as long as possbile and to look good but I also dont want to over charge or use unnecessaryily expensive materials. Correct me if I'm wrong but the ink's life span will be the same on a calandered vinyl as on a cast vinyl.

Not sure if I'm answering this correctly, but this is my theory on it.

Printing on a good grade vinyl only insures that you are giving your customer the very best for their money. Once you print on any vinyl, you basically shorten the lifespan. It starts to shrink at a more rapid pace, thus creating some cracking or splitting. So, using a better grade vinyl will prevent that to some extent. If you use an inferior product, your vinyl may deteriorate before it should and your calculations won't mean squat.

We basically only print on a calendared vinyl for One-Year applications. Anything more, we go to the high test products.

If you explain to your customer what they are getting into, then they can make an educated decision.... as long as you explain it by the book and NOT what you think. Now, if your potential customer goes to another shop and they lowball you.... you're customer should then ask.... what grade vinyl are you using and will you stand behind it if it fails..... you can, but the lowballers probably can't. That's how you can prevent lowballers from hurting your business. Educate the customers beforehand.


Now, for your last statement. You have two totally different theories going on and getting them confused.

I want my products to last as long as possible and to look good but I also don't want to over charge or use unnecessarily expensive materials

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Being in business for 40 years, I never once remember thinking anything less than of giving all of my/our customers the best product, regardless of the cost. There is nothing in my book as short-changing the customer. That's just not fair. We are the professionals and should do our utmost to give the best we can and know how. Let the other schmucks give lousy products and get caught cheating them. It will catch up to them, by your educating the customer.

The more the buyer knows about how and what you use.... the better.... as long as you're honest and using the best. That's what creates long relationships both in business and in life in general..... total and complete honesty.

 

[Signed Out]

Gino, thanks for sharing that. I guess what I meant about overcharging and unnecerarily expensive material is that I have always been using oracal 3951 with 290 lam for outdoor signs, a 10 year vinyl. but if the sign is going to start to fade in say 5 years then why not use 3551 with 215 lam, a 7 year vinyl and charge accordingly. I totally understand what you are saying about being able to stand behind your product, that's why i'm trying to figure out how long various materials will last, without having to watch ink fade for 10 years...

 

[petesign]

Is this laminated, or unlaminated? I thought laminate kept ink from fading.

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

Laminates and UV

Is this laminated, or unlaminated? I thought laminate kept ink from fading.

Petesign, I think you will find zero laminates able to prevent 100% of the UV rays from negatively affecting your graphics over time.

 

[petesign]

Well, sure, but is it crazy to think the laminate wont help keep them from fading for 5-7 years on a good vinyl, or am I kidding myself?

I have been thinking going with the ecosolvents was a mistake from the get-go two years ago, banners scratch easily, they dont seem to dry as fast, etc... but if all I can promise is 3 years, that's the nail in the coffin.

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

hhhmmm!!!!

Well, sure, but is it crazy to think the laminate wont help keep them from fading for 5-7 years on a good vinyl, or am I kidding myself?

I have been thinking going with the ecosolvents was a mistake from the get-go two years ago, banners scratch easily, they dont seem to dry as fast, etc... but if all I can promise is 3 years, that's the nail in the coffin.

WOW! man! I hear what you are saying; especially if you are comparing spot color prints to solid color vinyl and/or hand painted signs. However, I think the marketplace has come to accept fading of photo realistic images over time. Remember, you paint your home every 8-10 years because the paint breaks down over time. Printed images simply have different pigments and often times different substrates

 

[Gino]

I was always told that regardless of what your ink or vinyl is that you're using.... laminate will only add possibly 12 months of life up to maybe 24 months.

Again, it all depends on your conditions. Are you near the equator, far up north, using eco solv inks, true solvent or U/V ??

In fact, you can print a print today with a batch of inks on a wrap , a sign or whatever and use the same ink for a print tomorrow and you could have as much as two years difference.... simply based upon the colors going on it.

Okay, let's say you have a guy in Florida, doing a digital print with laminate, with a lot of pinks, reds and other pastallish colors, while the next day he does a full rasterized printed picture with all kinds of darker colors using lotsa greens, black and some other dark colors.... the second one will probably last longer. Now use the same machine, inks, colors and some guy in Connecticut does it.... he might get two or three more years.... simply based on location.

These companies have to take every detail into consideration when they are selling to people around the world. They can't have certain warranties for you and different ones for someone else. Suppose someone sells their units second hand to someone far away ?? There has to be an industry standard and we all have to use our noggin a little on this stuff. Now take that whole scenario and use the best grade vinyl.... everything will step up a few notches, so why not just use the best you can >>

In most cases, a job is only gonna be a few dollars different in the end for each job, except wraps... a little more involved on these. Anyway, if you price out the price you pay for stuff, what you charge your customer, who is incidentally paying for it completely..... why complain about saving a few dollars, when they paid for it and you're only complaining because you buy in bulk ??

You buy a 54" x 150 yards roll for $XX amount and make $XX amount from it.
Now you buy 54 x 150 yards of cheaper stuff and you save some dollars, but when you break it down to possibly 18 4' x 8's, you are only saving about $11 or $12 a sign. Now, is that really something to complain about ?? I don't think so.