Exterior Lighted SIgn Box

[laserman70]

Who is everyone using for the light boxes, exterior?
We have been working with a company, their prices seemed to have jumped..

Thanks for the help

 

[laserman70]

Well, I guess no one in the whole USA buys a lighted sign box.
THanks appreciate the help..

 

[MikePro]

if pricing is your main concern, then maybe shop someone local? Nearly half the cost of a sign cabinet, comes from getting it to your doorstep.

 

[bannertime]

We use a local shop. Their price, installed, is cheaper than having a fabricated box shipped to us.

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

All the cabinets I have ever done i build in house from a knock down kit from my local sign supplier. It comes complete with mitered extrusion, aluminum backs and plastic for faces, lamps, sockets, and ballast.

 

[Marlene]

All the cabinets I have ever done i build in house from a knock down kit from my local sign supplier. It comes complete with mitered extrusion, aluminum backs and plastic for faces, lamps, sockets, and ballast.

how do you UL list a kit?

 

[MikePro]

same way you do any other sign. it's still fabricated in-house, so your UL certification applies if built to proper spec.

 

[Marlene]

same way you do any other sign. it's still fabricated in-house, so your UL certification applies if built to proper spec.

are you sure about about that? if that was the case, no shop would have to be a UL shop

 

[Billct2]

I think Mike means if the shop assembling it is UL listed anything they assemble would be covered. I agree with your question, if you buy a knockdown kit, can it still be UL certifies if the shop assembling it isn't?

 

[MikePro]

can it still be UL certifies if the shop assembling it isn't?

nope. you can't ship a box of components with UL stickers included. Shop assembling product needs to have UL Certification and place their own stickers on the sign after the finished product is verified to meet spec.

 

[Billct2]

That's what I thought. I would think anyone who is UL listed is probably building everything in house anyhow.

 

[Marlene]

nope. you can't ship a box of components with UL stickers included. Shop assembling product needs to have UL Certification and place their own stickers on the sign after the finished product is verified to meet spec.

that is what I thought too so if no UL certifiation means the shop can't legally asseble a kit even if the parts are UL

 

[MikePro]

they can assemble & install if the city doesn't require UL for permit, which is still fairly common in most places that aren't major cities.
we get sign shops coming through our door all the time asking if we'll put a UL sticker on their sign, but they're disappointed to find out that its never as simple as slapping a decal on it... as our name/reputation/insurance now becomes part of it, so we have to nearly disassemble the entire thing to confirm structural/electrical & replace/repair as necessary to meet spec.

 

[Marlene]

they can assemble & install if the city doesn't require UL for permit, which is still fairly common in most places that aren't major cities.
we get sign shops coming through our door all the time asking if we'll put a UL sticker on their sign, but they're disappointed to find out that its never as simple as slapping a decal on it... as our name/reputation/insurance now becomes part of it, so we have to nearly disassemble the entire thing to confirm structural/electrical & replace/repair as necessary to meet spec.

I think it depends on the state as we sure don't have a major city for hundreds of miles

 

[reQ]

So, how about when electrical companies modify existing light box with LED modules? I talked to electrical contractor (large business here) they said as long as all electrical parts are cUL/CSA (for Canada) listed, its approved to be used, of course, considering licensed electrician is doing the job & applying for permit.

They did many jobs for me already, last one, they changed whole pylon structure for LEDs (consisted of 6 signs on the same pylon). Gutted all old stuff & wired with LED modules etc.

 

[MikePro]

same but different, as you're modifying existing. the sign originally produced/installed is carrying its own UL Sticker with serial#. when you simply remove ballasts & bulbs and replace with LED's, the sign is still a sign originally permitted for that location. I don't believe I've ever seen anyone require a UL sticker or even a permit for this kind of service work.
...you can change a bulb, but some places make you get a permit to change the vinyl graphics on the face. (madison, wi)

 

[reQ]

same but different, as you're modifying existing. the sign originally produced/installed is carrying its own UL Sticker with serial#. when you simply remove ballasts & bulbs and replace with LED's, the sign is still a sign originally permitted for that location. I don't believe I've ever seen anyone require a UL sticker or even a permit for this kind of service work.
...you can change a bulb, but some places make you get a permit to change the vinyl graphics on the face. (madison, wi)

So, i am not an elecrician, but how does it make sense? Lets say we are gutting old light box. After all electrical parts are out, there is only metal frame left, which is non-electrical part that does not have to be UL, then you are installing all new wires etc. So if it can be done, using other shop's UL label, you can easily get them in trouble by not rewiring it correctly & setting it on fire? Am i stupid?

 

[reQ]

I also seen sort of self-made box signs that they were able to wire, without it having any previous electrical parts in it. I am confused now lol.

 

[MikePro]

loaded question, and hearsay from a Canadian province to which I haven't a clue about regulation.
I am generalizing UL info in the United States, to which many counties have adopted as a requirement for sign permits. Individual parts may be UL-listed, but typically the electrical sign fabricated, as a whole, receives it's UL label by those certified to do so.
UL Resource Guide

 

[reQ]

loaded question, and hearsay from a Canadian province to which I haven't a clue about regulation.
I am generalizing UL info in the United States, to which many counties have adopted as a requirement for sign permits. Individual parts may be UL-listed, but typically the electrical sign fabricated, as a whole, receives it's UL label by those certified to do so.
UL Resource Guide

I see. I called the owner of that electrical company just to see what he says That pylon sign that i mentioned - it will have to be certified again, can't use old label, due to electrical parts getting changed. Its pretty anal here about electrical codes in general, thats why i don't touch it & let them do everything that includes electrical