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Flex face retrofit unconventional style

signlords

New Member
So we had a customer have us come out to quote them on new pan faces. A few weeks later I saw they had new flex faces installed. Something they had never asked about and I guess I should have offered... Hindsight... The same customer came in for some other work and I asked politely and he said that some random new "sign guy" came in and caught the other owner and made them a sweet heart deal. I found the other company on Facebook and they had posted some vague pictures of their "manufacture/installation" So it appears to be regular banner material that they screw into an aluminum frame with no real tensioning system. Then I am not sure on the finishing touch, maybe screw some angle aluminum into the side to give it something to slide into the channel? Anybody seen anything like this? Will it hold? Will it not stretch the first good wind? We are on the beach in Florida mind you. They also apply cut vinyl to these faces...
signface.jpg
 

signbrad

New Member
Signlords,

Yes, this can be made to work, though I prefer the hinged kits that are made for retrofitting. This is, however, a cheap way to make a flexible face to fit onto an existing cabinet.
We have made these as large as 6x8 and they lasted till the business closed. We stretched the fabric on a square tube frame just like in the photo and then put screws through the frame into the cabinet. Then we made oversize retainers to cover the edges.

The main problem is the frame tends to bow inward even from just hand tensioning of the fabric. We used duckbill welding clamps to grip the fabric and bend it around the square tube frame while we inserted screws. One of the fabricators solved the bowing problem with a couple of braces welded midway and perpendicular to the long dimension of the frame. To keep the braces from creating shadows, they inset them into the cabinet space about six inches using short pieces of square tube welded to the inside of the frame at 45-degree angles (I would draw this to show you but I'm not at work). Measuring carefully, they positioned the braces so they would be between, rather than in front of, vertical lamps when installed. Even with the braces, the frame structure tries to rack a little when you are tensioning the fabric, but it flattens when screwed to the cabinet. We started using screws with washers for fastening the fabric but found that using a truss head screw with no washer would work and was faster. Once in a while the screw would try to twist the fabric up. I learned to use just the right setting on the screw gun clutch, hold the fabric nice and tight, and screw as straight as possible. I always spaced the screws about 2-3 inches apart.

Obviously, the face can never achieve the same tension as a screw-tensioned or spring-tensioned system, but it did work.
We never suffered a blowout that I knew of.

This must be done with fabric made for flexible faces. Banner material will not work. It's not heavy enough and is not tear-resistant enough. It probably doesn't have the mildew resistant additives either, like Cooley fabric or Flexface fabric (Flexface is a trademark owned by Arlon unless it has changed hands).

Was it a pain in the rear to service the sign later? You dang right it was. If the vertical braces penetrating the cabinet space were not into the cabinet too deeply, so that they cleared the lamps, the frame could slide from side to side for a ways. But often the easiest way to service the sign was to just remove one whole face and lay it on the ground. The installers did not like seeing us making these frames.

I am a big fan of flexible faced signs, though they can be expensive. They can solve so many problems.
The best flexible-face signs I have seen were designed so the lamps and ballasts could be accessed from the outside without removing or loosening the fabric face. You can put ballasts in inset cubbies on the sides of the the cabinet, for example, with covers, of course. Access holes top and bottom can be made for lamp changing. If the holes are made with lips and the covers made like small pans, the holes can be waterproof (mostly:smile:).

Brad in Kansas City
 

signlords

New Member
What are your thoughts on cut vinyl on flex face? Will the flexing of the face not be an issue? We print any flex faces we do, but my customer is trying to figure out what longevity they can expect. I am going out to see how it was mounted in the next couple days.
 

signbrad

New Member
What are your thoughts on cut vinyl on flex face? Will the flexing of the face not be an issue?
Cut vinyl is the commonest way to decorate white flexible faces. In the early days we sprayed translucent paints, but it is a hassle. For colored backgrounds, you can use eradicable material such as Cooley, or simply overlay white fabric with a background of translucent vinyl with reversed out graphics. If the graphics are to be a color other than white, simply lay them on top of the white voids.

For example, a red background with yellow letters can be made by eradicating the letters on red Cooley fabric, then applying yellow cut letters over the white voids. Make the letters a little oversize to trap the red edges so there are no white light leaks. Or you can reverse-cut letters in a red translucent vinyl background piece and lay it on the fabric. Again, make oversize yellow letters to trap the voids.

All the translucent vinyls I have used seem to work well on the various fabrics, though Arlon recommends the use of Arlon-made vinyl on Flexface brand fabric. The only time I have seen failure of the vinyl was when it was laid too cold. However, if the work is done in a shop rather than on site, this should not be a problem.

About trapping. I used to spend a lot of time and effort making traps as small as possible, but I no longer do this. A larger trap is neither objectionable nor very noticeable, and it gives you wiggle room for registration. In the past I even went to the trouble of laying a light colored letter first, then laying a reversed-out darker background on top, so the background color always trapped the letter color. I seldom do this anymore, either. The challenge of carefully laying multiple graphics first and then accurately registering and trapping them with a large reversed-out background piece can be a nightmare. And unless your machine is cutting perfectly, it may be a battle you cannot win.

About laying large backgrounds. I always laid them wet with soap and water only. Using a solvent-based application fluid is usually a mistake. It doesn't give you enough time to work out air bubbles. It accelerates the adhesive too quickly. It helps to have a second person squeegeeing on anything larger than 4x8, too. Also, wetting the face of the graphics, so that the squeegee blade is working wet, will allow you to apply firmer pressure without leaving scratches in the vinyl.

Brad
 
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