Graphic design classes

[bcpop]

I don't totally agree with biker scout about schools being "Crap". Some schools may be. Just like going to a mechanic to fix your car, if he doesn't know what he is doing...."It don't get fixed".
The one thing that gets in the way of some, is not having any Natural Talent. It is kind of like trying to teach someone to dance that has absolutely NO Rhythm.
I went to a four year college and earned a degree in Graphic Design. I was very fortunate enough to be awarded a scholarship to that institution out of high school, so that was an incentive. That was before the age of computer design so it was all by hand, and I think that is where schools are missing the boat.....by helping students expand their creativity by using only there minds and their hands.
I personally learned a ton in school. Color theory, better layout, photography, using the left side of your mind, and more. Stuff that I still use today even with the technology that is available.
Do your research....but I will agree with some of the others....a online degree is probably not going to cut it. Having other creative talent around you encourages you to step up your game.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tony Teveris]

I'd say just start posting the designs on this board, you will get enough options to last a life time and you might even learn something.

 

[Boomer]

there is a ton of advice on this board.and sometimes so many opinions it can cause more confusion than clarity.I appreciate all input.My wife tells me I have more talent than I give myself credit for and that I should let my portfolio and quality of work speak for itself. I do believe hands on is the best training and working from the bottom up is the best way to learn.I was just looking for something to help me look at graphics and design differently.Thanks again for any and all input.

 

[SignTech]

This may not be a very popular opinion... but I'll share it anyway. Design Schools and Graphic Arts Degrees are CRAP! They waste a lot of really talented people's time and fill their heads with sh*! that won't ever serve them in a workplace. Also, the ones where you get a 4 year degree, well, they actually tell them that they are going to be making upwards of $50-60k per year in that field. That's how the schools justify the tuition. It's pathetic.

Nearly every kid that comes to my shop with a lame portfolio, I can tell just by looking at the pieces that they came from a design school. Nearly every person who I know that actually has a degree is also working at Kinkos or maybe a larger print shop lucky to be making $15 per hour. And they can't even pay their student loans back with that. Sure there are stories of that one chick in your class got hired on at a major firm and is making $80 starting out... but those are the outliers. Very far and few between. Chances are 90% of the other students in the same class had more talent as far as art and design go.

You want to become a better designer... study design just by reading the latest trend magazines. Go to this site, and subscribe to their magazine, and even get their book in print too. www.bamagazine.com
I'm telling you, I know from experience... you only get better by learning in the field... not in a classroom. Now if you don't know how to use Dreamweaver or Flash, that's one thing... they actually have classes specifically for those at your local community college, or there are really good tutorial books available for those. But wasting your time by taking classes on Design Theory, Art Theory and Art History, and an entire class devoted to putting together a Portfolio, as well as a bunch of other really nonsensical classes, just to fulfill some sort of broad based curriculum bull shit, you are wasting your time and money.

See the way I look at it, is this... as far as an artistic ability or an eye for design, either you've got it or you don't. Learning the finer points and details as to what makes a good design can be learned and learned quickly. That set of magazines I pointed to earlier... I promise, that's a college education if you read them and put the little samples into practice.

Best post I have ever read!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

I told myself I wasn't going to come back to this thread again after reading Biker Scout's post. Well I made it nearly 6 hours and now here I am spending my lunch break reading all the new posts. Although I already put in my two cents, I've got a whole dollar burning a hole in my pocket, but I'll try and keep it down to a nickle.

Frankly guys, I don't get it. Why would you discourage anyone from any form of education. I certainly understand personal experiences that have you leaning away from a formal approach to studying design. But to make such a sweeping generalization as "Design Schools and Graphic Arts Degrees are CRAP" ...seriously! Even after you said that Biker Scout, you went on to make some very ligament statements and had some great advice.

There are so many smart and talented people here I really surprised that you wouldn't be encouraging any and all forms of education. Can any one of you say you learned everything you know from one institution, instructor or place of business? I sure as hell can't! Did I have some worthless classes, yep. Did I have instructors that were so boring I couldn't imagine a creative bone in their body.... yes several. But I also had a few instructors that were fantastic and one who I would have followed around, sat through every class they taught or worked for free for, just hoping some of whatever is was they had would rub off on me. I know, it sounds a little stalker or hot-for-teacher like, but she was brilliant, funny and so inspiring. She was a working professional with stories and lessons about the design business that you could never get in a book.

I say, expose yourself to creative brilliance where ever you can find it... in schools, as interns, in books/magazines and here on this site. And yes, even you guys I don't agree with.

I've interviewed plenty of so-call designers, with and without a formal educations; most of whom you wouldn't trust to answer the phone much less trust with a client's job. Even with interns, you can tell the ones that just need a little more education to be a well rounded designer and those who could spend the rest of their lives in school and will never be able to put together a decent layout much less designs a logo.

I have yet to meet the person with such mad design skills that they couldn't benefit from a course or two.

 

[Biker Scout]

I have a degree in History. Wish I would have gotten a Business Degree instead. Heck I might go back for another one. Far more practical in the real world than an ego stroking BA in Graphic Design.

Heck, when I was in College, (not soo long ago) you couldn't actually get a BA in "Graphic Design" it was always a minor, and they made you just get a BA in Fine Arts, maybe, depending on the school you could get one with emphasis. A two year degree, or an AA... sure. No big deal. A technical or trade school, yeah, that's expected.

What I'm getting at is this... a Bachelors degree in Graphic Design is a waste of time considering what nearly every graphic design job is willing to pay. Look it up, Craigslist, Local Paper, whatever... nearly all jobs in the field pay less than $15 to start. I'm sorry, that's not a career path, that's just a job. I'm not willing to sink $40 - $60k into an education that's not going to get a good return on my investment any time soon.

The larger companies and design firms use the BA just to get your foot in the door, and I understand that for those instances. But you've really got to be talented to even be looked at by those companies in the first place. For those people that want to pursue the white collar, high end world of design and advertising should get an Arts degree of some kind. But there's still that caveat that they always throw at you... Plus 4 years experience!

The Graphic Designer position is one of the most underrated, devalued position in the grand scheme of things... I mean, look at what half of us have to deal with on a daily basis. "What do you mean you charge hourly for design time?" or "Don't you just push a few buttons?" or "I've got Photo Shop and Publisher at home, I don't need to pay for any extra design services." or "Just put a box around it"

If you really want to be in this field, you've got to learn the ropes that they can't teach in a classroom. Because in the classroom, they tell you how wonderful life is in the modern design world. Very few instructors actually work in the field they teach. It's nice when they do, and their students excel.

I'm all for education... heck, I'm an autodidact and love learning new things. But I'm also realistic in the sense that I've worked the design trenches before I went to college. I saw what it took to get from A to B and I didn't want any part of it. I continued to work design jobs to get through college, but saw there was no financial future in the field, unless you own your own firm. Heck, photography would have paid off by now.

---

Forgot to add, that I remember when a few colleges started adding Graphic Design to their Course Handbooks. I got mildly interested and looked it up. They literally made up classes that didn't exist before. It wasn't some re-organization of core art classes coupled with some computer classes, and maybe some computer design classes that taught you photo shop or whatever. There was literally 12-20 units worth of utter nonsense. I had the pleasure of hiring two kids fresh out of big boy college with a graphic design degree. First guy was first in the new courses, and first to graduate with said degree. He said most of the instructors didn't even know what to teach or how. All 4 years too. Second guy (a couple of years later) went to UC San Diego. Said that the program was fairly new, but the instructors had it pretty much together, but there were sooo many classes he was required to take that had no real bearing on his degree that he almost wanted to quit. He said he learned the most from his peer work/study groups on collaborative projects. See, working with people, in the field is where it's at. Last guy was talented, and is still unemployed as a graphic designer.

 

[Cadmn]

I got sooo tired of "Graduates"of the so called colleges around here I don't even give call backs any more Most have No idea of Kerning & since they can Run photoshop they know everything & most couldn't design, A sack of doodoo if their life depended on it.
soo tired of paper mills & their High prices $20000 for a 2 year piece of paper.

 

[Biker Scout]

Here's another way to look at it... For you business owners in here, how much to you pay your top designer?

If it's the equivalent of $18 per hour or higher, then you sir, have a dedicated career person on your hands, who probably goes the extra mile even without being asked.

If it's less than $15 per hour, would a piece of paper in a nice frame change how you felt about them, right at this very moment? I'll bet you that even at $15 per hour, they'd be squirming all the while thinking about how they are worth sooo much more, and still do the same caliber of work.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

Although I don't run a sign shop, our entry level jobs require 4 year degrees - and all my designers have them (all have BAs or BFAs) except one, with an associates.

Sure there's some pie-in-sky stuff taught in art schools - but when assessing candidates, I'm not only interested in how well they can comp a web site, but how well they can speak and communicate. So I like what a 4 year degree can do in terms of teaching people how to communicate to clients, and offer some marketing strategy besides just pretty things.

I myself have a BA in Communications/Advertising from University of Scranton which is not really a design a school at all - but a good liberal arts school. I was fortunate to have some good internships working under great art directors, which really taught me the mechanics.

What I learned about sign design was gleaned through working in sign shops as a teenager, and painting signs and pinstriping on my own from about 12 or 13 years of age. And a lot of SignCraft's.

My most recent hire also comes from a liberal arts background from a good Jesuit university - and I can put her in front of any client and know she can speak intelligently and represent us well. I chose her over candidates with stronger portfolios who lacked the necessary communication skills.

 

[signmeup]

I just redid the kerning on a hideous "logo" from a graphic design student. The local board of trade thought it would be a good idea to get the local college students to design them a logo(!). The best one apparently didn't know that you could adjust the space between the letters.

I chastized the person in charge of this exercise and explained how it demeaned the profession, gave the student the message that their work was worth nothing and asked how an entity that existed to support and promote local businesses could do something like that. I also told them the "logo" sucked and I charged them to vectorize the jpeg they sent me to make the thing into a sign. I also told them that they should pay the students for their work. (sorry for the rant)

Back on topic......My sister has a BA. She told me they spent 2 years learning to speak "art babble", which helps her everyday in her art gallery. Sounds like what you're talking about Dan. Communicating properly with her customers is paramount to her making a living. It's definitly something I need to work on.

 

[Jane Diaz]

One of the BEST things that you can do, if you are serious about good layout, sign, website or whatever, is to read Mike Stevens book, "Mastering Layout". There are soooo many art principles that he touches on that are invaluable like, negative space, color, rhythm, letter style, etc. It is an excellent book that EVERY sign person needs to own. His visual examples show you what he is talking about and why it is true. It should be a text book for every graphic artist. It's available through ST Publications.