Help! Delamination on wide format prints

[Callum]

I could really use some help as i have tried almost everthing i can think of but no matter what i do i can not get the laminate to stick to my prints coming off my wideformat printer, we are also currently in the process of buying a new wide format machine but even the sample sheets that have come from that printer had problems with delamination. Any help or ideas on why this is happening would be very appreciated

 

[Boudica]

what printer, what media - printed and lam... and how long are you letting it out gas?

 

[White Haus]

what printer, what media - printed and lam

This would be a great start...............................

 

[Callum]

what printer, what media - printed and lam... and how long are you letting it out gas?

Here are the printers we have tested on and time left before lamination:

• Mimaki CJV 150-130 - Poster Paper - Left for 24hr before lamination
  
• Colorado 1650 - Poster Paper - Left for 48hr before lamination

These printer user completely different inks and still give us the same result which makes me think the media is not correct for what we need or the laminate is not able to stick to media due to ink density

 

[White Haus]

Ok and what is "the laminate"....?

Something is obviously off here, and I would suspect it is the laminate.

 

[Callum]

The laminate we are trying to use is - 35Mic Digital Soft Touch Matt OPP

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

"Suitable for use with hot-melt roll laminators able to process OPP laminating film - check your laminator for compatability."

You're trying to use hot laminate film. Unless you are 100% sure you have a hot roll laminator (not just a heat assist model) my bets are on this being the issue.

What make and model are you laminator?

 

[Callum]

"Suitable for use with hot-melt roll laminators able to process OPP laminating film - check your laminator for compatability."

You're trying to use hot laminate film. Unless you are 100% sure you have a hot roll laminator (not just a heat assist model) my bets are on this being the issue.

What make and model are you laminator?

The laminator we are using is vivids own matrix laminators which are hot roll laminators, My guess at the moment would be the ink density is too high for the laminate to adhere too and i need a film with better adhesion to high density prints

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

That's fair enough then... just wanted to be sure.

 

[iPrintStuff]

I would just switch the lam to a cold/heat assist lam.

Colorado inks are cured as they come out so should be ready to go instantly. Also I can’t see it being ink density - who designs a laminate made to not adhere to printed materials?

I take it you are encapsulating and not just laminating? How hot are you running the top and bottom rollers? How hot does the lam require?

 

[Grizzly]

I would just switch the lam to a cold/heat assist lam.

Colorado inks are cured as they come out so should be ready to go instantly. Also I can’t see it being ink density - who designs a laminate made to not adhere to printed materials?

I'm with iPrintStuff here. I've never had any issues with lamination sticking to the 1650 inks. There is no need to outgas those either. Might want to consider changing laminate.

 

[Michael-Nola]

You also need to define or supply pictures of "delamination". Is it curling back hard? That is often a symptom of too much tension during lamination. Is it actually failing to adhere? That means not enough heat or chemistry incompatibility - just change lams either way.

The next layer of question would be, why are you using a heat lam anyway? Why are you using solvent and UV ink printers with heat lams? There are a lot of incompatibilities here. Heat lams have become so deficient compared to cold that substrate manufacturers even use topcoats incompatible with their adhesion. In general, heat laminations should be discarded or you should be using a paper-appropriate ink for these types of prints. Solvent inks on paper are a starting recipe of incompatibility ... and UV is just a waste.

 

[micadesign]

for me the problem is the laminate film.
i have a mimaki jv300-160 and sometimes i need do print a lam after 30min. and have no problems with it.

 

[MichaelGass]

Can I test print some for you? I may have a solution.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

FYI, was just talking to our Hexis dealer and they said that some laminates will not stick to the matte printing from a 1650, however will stick perfectly fine to gloss prints. Something to keep in mind.

 

[Callum]

We have been made aware of the laminate having trouble sticking to the matte but out exact problem is when we make go to make the product that the laminate seems to delam

We are a personalised book company and use the wide format to print some of our larger covers for the hardback books but what happens is it look fine after lamination but then when the case is made it will delaminate at the front and back where cover opens and closes i can attach pictures if needed if you dont understand what i mean

 

[jfiscus]

Maybe feed speed is too high? Running it slower may give it more time to bond with the print. Might also be too thick/rigid of a laminate to endure the "folding"?
IDK, we don't deal with hot laminates much.

 

[Zach Starr]

I could really use some help as i have tried almost everthing i can think of but no matter what i do i can not get the laminate to stick to my prints coming off my wideformat printer, we are also currently in the process of buying a new wide format machine but even the sample sheets that have come from that printer had problems with delamination. Any help or ideas on why this is happening would be very appreciated

Get them tested on Stratojet wide format printers, they have both UV Roll Printer - Falcon (for matte printing) and Clean Inks - Hawk (similar to latex with hp). Would recommend testing the hawk printer first as that doesn't require any de-gassing process.