How to account for fabric stretch for SEGs?

[artcraftsigns]

Our shop does not print dye sub (yet) but we have been working with a couple different PSPs over the years who do to create SEGs for trade show displays for our clients... One thing we've never been quite able to hammer down is the question of how to account for fabric stretch when given a speicifc frame size. Does anyone have any advice or a formula they use to account for fabric stretch to come up with the correct art/finish size for SEG applications? Would you be willing to share that information with us? Thanks.

 

[flyplainsdrifta]

its all going to depend upon heat and the specific fabric it self, along with how its webbed thru the machine. i print dir-dyesub and it varies greatly from fabric to fabric, machine to machine. compensation of stretch is in our caldera rip settings for media's so most of the time it involves printing a piece at a known length, then cutting and measuring, taking what you expected and what you got, plugging those numbers into caldera and going from there. it can vary though. we strive for a tolerance of about a quarter inch for all of our fabric pieces.

 

[artcraftsigns]

its all going to depend upon heat and the specific fabric it self, along with how its webbed thru the machine. i print dir-dyesub and it varies greatly from fabric to fabric, machine to machine. compensation of stretch is in our caldera rip settings for media's so most of the time it involves printing a piece at a known length, then cutting and measuring, taking what you expected and what you got, plugging those numbers into caldera and going from there. it can vary though. we strive for a tolerance of about a quarter inch for all of our fabric pieces.

Thanks for the reply! Though I am referring less to any stretch that occurs during the printing process (though I can see where that would matter as well) and more to "how much is this finished/sewn graphic going to stretch when I install it in the frame". The goal being good tautness, little to no sag, but also not so tight that you have to be he-man to stretch it into the channel.

 

[Quark]

If your psp seg provider can’t help you with that it’s time to change your psp provider

 

[artcraftsigns]

If your psp seg provider can’t help you with that it’s time to change your psp provider

The PSP we are currently working with is brand new to the dye sub game. We love working with them because of their proximity and unmatched turnaround time. They are very eager to learn and to work with us, so I'm just trying to do a little research on my end to pass along to them to further cultivate our relationship.

 

[TrustMoore_TN]

When I was learning dye sub, I thought that stretch would be the main concern that I would have, but it turns out that I need to account for shrinkage instead. I would add 3-5% to the running length and 3-4” to the height (scan direction) in the design file. Then once it was printed, I would measure my frame and had a calculation which would add a certain amount to account for the Keder (silicon strip). Then I would mark the fabric, cut it, sew the Keder to the edge and test fit. The fabric we used had a certain amount of stretch if we had 20 ft long or longer lengths, or anything over 8’ tall. We usually would test fit 2 edges (Top and Left Side), then mark the Bottom and Right sides, and trim them at that point. For smaller graphics, we didn’t need to worry about stretch. Hope this makes some sense. Good Luck

 

[artcraftsigns]

When I was learning dye sub, I thought that stretch would be the main concern that I would have, but it turns out that I need to account for shrinkage instead. I would add 3-5% to the running length and 3-4” to the height (scan direction) in the design file. Then once it was printed, I would measure my frame and had a calculation which would add a certain amount to account for the Keder (silicon strip). Then I would mark the fabric, cut it, sew the Keder to the edge and test fit. The fabric we used had a certain amount of stretch if we had 20 ft long or longer lengths, or anything over 8’ tall. We usually would test fit 2 edges (Top and Left Side), then mark the Bottom and Right sides, and trim them at that point. For smaller graphics, we didn’t need to worry about stretch. Hope this makes some sense. Good Luck

Thanks for the input. That's very helpful. We haven't had any problem with these being too small yet. So far the problem is that at 20 feet and longer they are too loose. We are measuring the frame using this method (https://www.orbus.com/services/graphic-services/seg-graphic-requirements) then adding 1/2" on each edge for the Keder. We then instruct our PSP to sew the Keder right on the edge of this "finished" size (frame dimension plus 1/2" inch in each direction). 10ft and 15ft graphics seem to be perfect using this method, but anything over that tends to be too loose so we have to "roll" the fabric around the keder 1-2 times to effectively make the graphic smaller so it doesn't sit so loose in the channel.

 

[Seth Griffin]

Late to the game, but it really depends on your fabric, more than anything else. We use Fisher Triple white (tri-poly?) for almost everything we do, and if has very little stretch. With the way we sew the SEG on, we typically cut 3/4" larger than nominal for any dimension <20", 5/8" larger for any dimension 20-72", and 3/8" larger for any dimension >72".

What I would recommend doing is figuring out the percentage of stretch that you're comfortable with in your fabric, and adjust your graphics accordingly. For instance, at my prior position, when we used Fisher Soft Knit, we knew that the stretch was fairly negligible on the length of the fabric, and about 2% on the width (i.e., something cut to 100" the length of the fabric, and 50" wide would stretch to 100 x 51. From there, you can build quicksets in Onyx to make the adjustments. But remember your graphics orientations! If you need to tile images because they're too large, everything needs to be oriented in the same direction.

 

[balstestrat]

Late to the game, but it really depends on your fabric, more than anything else. We use Fisher Triple white (tri-poly?) for almost everything we do, and if has very little stretch. With the way we sew the SEG on, we typically cut 3/4" larger than nominal for any dimension <20", 5/8" larger for any dimension 20-72", and 3/8" larger for any dimension >72".

What I would recommend doing is figuring out the percentage of stretch that you're comfortable with in your fabric, and adjust your graphics accordingly. For instance, at my prior position, when we used Fisher Soft Knit, we knew that the stretch was fairly negligible on the length of the fabric, and about 2% on the width (i.e., something cut to 100" the length of the fabric, and 50" wide would stretch to 100 x 51. From there, you can build quicksets in Onyx to make the adjustments. But remember your graphics orientations! If you need to tile images because they're too large, everything needs to be oriented in the same direction.

You can just set the compensation in the media profile and it will process it automatically. No need to play around with quicksets.

 

[Seth Griffin]

You can just set the compensation in the media profile and it will process it automatically. No need to play around with quicksets.

There are pros and cons to doing it that way. The biggest con that I can think of is that means making a new media profile for each fabric, which could create discrepancies in images across fabrics. But you could also copy your profile, and then calibrate each copy for a different fabric--labelling carefully--and change your scale adjustment to match.

At my previous workplace, we had a graphics person that adjusted graphics in Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign prior to going to print, as well as specifying the orientation of the fabric, just so pre-press didn't have to think about it.