Discussion How to handle others' mistakes when outsourcing printing?

[Rosa La Rumorosa]

Hello folks!

I'd like to hear you about how to deal with this issue I have with the faults of my service providers. I design signage and decor products and outsource the printing.

The thing is the printshops usually make some mistakes and after a while, our relationship goes sour and I see myself forced to look for another one. It seems that after some time, they start to hate me for asking for reprints and they start acting slobby, as if in order to force me to stop sending jobs to them.

Is there a better way of dealing with this people and asking for corrections in a way that they don't feel bad? I always say something along this lines:
"Hello John Doe! I ordered 6 prints of this file, but only got 5, can you check it please?"

Example of the most commom mistakes:
• I send 5 files to print, they download and print only 4 and then, they have to print the other one after I ask them (which delays my delivering time)
• Prints often come with ink drops and sometimes smudges, as if the printhead had touched the wet media; then I take a picture, send to them and say: hey, there's an issue with this one, can you check it please? "Check it please" is my password for "print it again"
• The other day, I ordered a wall mural with five parts and got only four. Then they told me they totally forgot because they put it for later. Then, they printed this fifth part, but the color were different from the other four due to something with their ink. Then they had to print all five parts again in order to match the color

Notice I have no control over these faults, I often give so many instructions as I can in order to avoid such things. But unfortunately, with time I become a PITA customer for them, because of THEIR MISTAKES. And they're quite big companies, with 15 - 20 workers, not a one man shop.

Am I being too demanding? How should I deal with this, in order to keep a good relationship with them? It's been a lot of printshops already, same mistakes, I'm tired, maybe I'm doing something wrong and don't even know.

 

[CanuckSigns]

My gut instinct, if you are having the same issues with multiple different vendors, the common denominator is you. Now don't take that the wrong way, but something you are doing isn't working with their systems and workflow, are you sending a single concise email with all the needed files, or are you one of the customers who will send a file, then send a new one 3 hours later because something was wrong, then send another revised file the next day because the client changed something etc?

As for smudges and marks on the prints, that's 100% on them, they should be reprinting for free without question

If they are treating you like a PITA customer, then chances are something you are doing is causing that, we are only hearing your side of the story here. I've had many clients who started out as great customers, but turned into PITA clients, it can be as simple as attitudes and personalities not meshing, down to unreasonable demands and expectations.

Might be time to buy your own equipment if you can't find a wholesaler to keep you happy.

 

[Rosa La Rumorosa]

No way, I'm very organized and I send the whole order in the same email, one single time, everything according to their rules. Do you print stuff? Is it commom for you to forget to print some files? Or send the customer the printed job with ink drops?
And what's the nice attitude to ask for reprint without becoming a pita? Because I can't deliver to my client a work with smudges or missing parts, can I?
The only thing I'm doing that's turning me into a PITA is asking for reprint everytime I get a smudged print. What attitude shoud I have then?
By the way, I wouldn't need to ask for reprint if they checked the job out before handing me over, don't you think?

Maybe I'll give them a checklist so they can check the jobs before handing me. And how would be a nice way to ask for reprints?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Are you using small shops or big wholesalers? I sub out a lot and use large wholesalers are rarely have a problem. They have websites set up for automated work flow and its hard for them to mess up.

I use Signs 365 and sometimes Firesprint... They have made mistakes but fixed them quickly. I used to use smaller wholesalers but I felt they weren't optimized enough. It's nice to just upload artwork and send it in without needing confirmation or waiting on proofs. People love to rave about staying local and building relationships but the bigger guys are big for a reason.

 

[Rosa La Rumorosa]

Are you using small shops or big wholesalers? I sub out a lot and use large wholesalers are rarely have a problem. They have websites set up for automated work flow and its hard for them to mess up.

I use Signs 365 and sometimes Firesprint... They have made mistakes but fixed them quickly. I used to use smaller wholesalers but I felt they weren't optimized enough. It's nice to just upload artwork and send it in without needing confirmation or waiting on proofs. People love to rave about staying local and building relationships but the bigger guys are big for a reason.

They're not small, neither wholesalers, they're at most 30 employees companies, we don't have digital print wholesalers here in Brazil. I used to work with wholesalers for printing business cards, flyers and paper stuff, with no issues, but we don't have such services for printing banners and vynil.

 

[Rosa La Rumorosa]

Forgetting one of 5 files is inexcusable, unless the quantity of prints was never listed and the files have names that are not helpful. Ideally if you are a middleman between the printer and end user, you would have an order form for them to reference as the job goes on. Stuff like quantity, size, etc in clearly and consistently marked spots on the form.
We started using forms for orders from a hospital where some items were taxed and some weren't, it was a huge boon to save a rapidly souring relationship between the accountant, salesman, and customer.
As far as asking for reprints, there is no great way to hear it, so being blunt would work better in my book than tip toeing around the issue. "This is not going to be acceptable for my client, could you please rerun this one."
Checklists or forms will have a bit of pushback initially, it helped that we had several revisions with a spot for notes on what one person or the other in the process would like to see on the form, so it was a team effort between us and the customer.

The quantity was properly listed and I always describe size and quantities in the file name. They told me this file were 25 inch width and they were using a 50 inch width material, so, they put it off for later in order to add more stuff in the 25 inch left side, so they could use the whole width of the material. I can understand that. But, they were supposed to check the quantities before handing me, so, they could correct the mistake without me even knowing it. Mistakes happen, what's inexcusable is not checking things before hading to the customer... the smudges and the missing parts could be avoided if they checked.

In my emails, I even recommend things like: print all stuff in the same color profile and material, so there's no difference between then. Please don't write down behind the liner, and so on. Thank you for your suggestions, I agree checklists might be a good idea

 

[victor bogdanov]

Now are you located in Brazil and the company you are using is also in Brazil? Quality standards can vary by country, I would bet for most jobs banding and ink drops are ok in Brazil. The other mistakes probably shouldn't be happening but I think if you are in Brazil the previous answers don't really apply as they are keeping USA standard in mind.

I recently had a customer show me prints he had done in Mexico from a reputable shop and he was happy with the prints until he saw what I printed for him. The MX print had banding, low quality vinyl etc, would not be acceptable in the USA but in MX it was considered great

 

[Voyage Print]

No Offense meant or intended so please do not take this as a negative but this is exactly why we do not deal with Resellers or POD. I am positive you are a great designer etc, but there is a great deal more invested in printing than just knowing photoshop and illustrator. You ask for reprints, the thing is most quality companies print what is provided and some will not print less than quality which is what we do. There are some sleazy elements in our industry that have subpar equipment which is why the price is lower and hence why they can sell you something lower priced that you can resell. Mostly these elements are selling the cheapest materials with the cheapest ink they can find they will likely look like a lawn mower ran through the ink because of missing nozzles. But quality boutique shops know that they have almost 500K at the min. invested in equipment thats just a min, as such we are not interested in one offs or the POD market. Quality comes with a price. You pay for what you get. I am sure I will catch hell for saying this, but you are on a sign forum where most of the people here are truly invested as such stop using less than reputable companies, and I am positive your quantity and quality issues will be fixed. Cheers

 

[ColorCrest]

Is there a better way of dealing with this people

There is a better way for the print service provider to deal with you.

The shop could / should offer a web portal to enable you to see the status of your jobs with certain line items. The portal should show verified quality control steps along with whom is responsible for such. This method enables the customer to track what they're looking for and also alleviates much of the emails, phone calls, etc.

The attached image is only a quick mockup. It does not show QC steps nor individual line items or direct shipping addresses.

 

[ikarasu]

What kind of shop are you buying from? If you're buying from a shop that mostly prints signs or items where a hair behind the vinyl, or a smudge in the corner is acceptable...they might think you're being too picky. We print everything from Reflective Construction signs to 10FT long Second surface acrylic prints. I cant count how many times theres been a smudge on a traffic construction print, and we just let it go because we know they'll get beat up in the field...and the customer would rather the sign now than wait for a reprint. Or the amount of times we've reprinted a job (Sometimes 3-4 for one job!) Even if it's 10' long because there was a spec of dust, or a hair, or a smudge, or something stretched, etc.

The construction people pay pennies on the dollar vs the people buying a flawless acyrlic print though. Maybe you're getting bottom of the barrel pricing, so you're also getting bottom of the barrel prints. If theyre only charging you a bit of a markup... having to reprint the job puts them in the hole.....so you get what you pay for. If you want high quality work, you have to find a high quality shop and be willing to pay for it.

 

[Rosa La Rumorosa]

Yes, I'm aware quality standards here in Brazil are not that much, they already use cheap vynil plus cheap ink, but ink drops and smudges? I don't think that would be acceptable anywhere, unless, of course, like ikarasu mentioned, it's a large sign and that smudge wouldn't be noticed, which is not the case when it's a decor product.
As for the POD market not being so interesting, I totally agree with you Voyage Print, I know the costs of equipment and stuff, but then, if it's not lucrative enough, you either raise the price or you get to another market, create and sell the stuff yourself. At least here in Brazil, I think if some printshops work primarily with resellers it's because they want to avoid the work of selling, creating, installing etc. They won't even do the finishing in the material, I get it just like it comes out of the printer.
Based on all that was said, I think that the problem is the kind of products I sell (decorative). I assume most of their customers work with signage only, that's why ink drops and smudges might be ok.
Well, I'll keep trying, let's see how it goes. But as CanuckSigns said, the commom denominator is me and maybe I should think about buying my own equipment

 

[White Haus]

There is a better way for the print service provider to deal with you.

The shop could / should offer a web portal to enable you to see the status of your jobs with certain line items. The portal should show verified quality control steps along with whom is responsible for such. This method enables the customer to track what they're looking for and also alleviates much of the emails, phone calls, etc.

The attached image is only a quick mockup. It does not show QC steps nor individual line items or direct shipping addresses.
View attachment 156208

Not to get too side-tracked, but is this all done in FM?

 

[2B]

There is a better way for the print service provider to deal with you.

The shop could / should offer a web portal to enable you to see the status of your jobs with certain line items. The portal should show verified quality control steps along with whom is responsible for such. This method enables the customer to track what they're looking for and also alleviates much of the emails, phone calls, etc.

The attached image is only a quick mockup. It does not show QC steps nor individual line items or direct shipping addresses.
View attachment 156208

What program are you using in this screenshot?

 

[Billct2]

"they're not small, neither wholesalers", so you are buying from large format printers/sign shops that aren't in the wholesale business?
That's the issue, they aren't interested in your business all that much and when they are working on their own projects that don't have time to deal with you.
I had similar issues subbing crane/install work to other companies who, though they claim to be wholesalers, were also a retail shop so their work came first
and when it was inconvenient to do my work it was blown off.

 

[Boudica]

Curious too. Is this a mockup only or something more?

he said it was only a quick mockup

 

[ColorCrest]

Not to get too side-tracked, but is this all done in FM?

Yes, I've used FileMaker and it's functional.