HP Latex 54 Cutter - defect or setting?

[mjohnsonsa]

For some time now I have had a problem with my HP Latex 54 cutter tracking going off the line sporadically on the Y axis while cutting. I have been unable to find any correlation except that it seems to happen more on larger cuts (over 40" long or so). I will have a single sheet with many nested cuts and some will cut perfectly on the contour line and then some will track way off; all on the same cut job (which seems to rule out calibrations). Sometimes it cuts the the graphic on the sheet that is way off first and then corrects for the remaining graphics and sometimes it is the last cut that messes up, there is no pattern where "once it starts going off it stays off" on the cut job. I even have it sometimes cut way off on part of a cut and then mid-cut right on the line on the other part of the cut on the same graphic. I have attached a photo showing a cut out of a 48" tall elf and you can see the left side of the cut it was off by over 1/2" and then on the right side it cut perfectly on the line. The problem has occurred on all kinds of vinyl, using Flexi 12 and 19, various firmware versions, all the calibrations, cleaning OPOS sensor and rollers, etc. have tried everything I can think of over the last several months to no avail...

I have wasted a lot of vinyl and ink and as of yet HP support has not had a solution to explain the problem.

I am at my wits end and am hoping someone else here has had the same problem and can share how they resolved it with me!

Elf example of bad cut:

Matt

 

[Commando]

Is the material laminated? Maybe with it happening on larger pieces, its too heavy.

 

[mjohnsonsa]

Is the material laminated? Maybe with it happening on larger pieces, its too heavy.

Commando that is an interesting theory. I have not laminated the vinyl. I am using is either 4-mil or 5-mil adhesive backed vinyl straight off the roll (usually GANS ARGVP). Any recommendation on how to remedy the issue if it is weight? would slowing down the cut help in that case? or doing something with the rollers to make sure they are not "slipping" under the load? and if it is weight how would you explain that it can start tracking again after it goes off the line?

 

[P Wagner]

Make sure that all four pinch rollers are being in placed in contact on the print media (or all three on the Basic cutter). If one is set off the media, you will get this type of result.

You can also check the imprint of the grit roller track on the back side of the vinyl (in the paper release liner) to check for slippage. The marks should look the same (with well-defined pin marks) on both outer edges of the cut - if one side is not tracking properly it will be visible in the pattern. You may need a loupe to see it in detail.

 

[Commando]

Commando that is an interesting theory. I have not laminated the vinyl. I am using is either 4-mil or 5-mil adhesive backed vinyl straight off the roll (usually GANS ARGVP). Any recommendation on how to remedy the issue if it is weight? would slowing down the cut help in that case? or doing something with the rollers to make sure they are not "slipping" under the load? and if it is weight how would you explain that it can start tracking again after it goes off the line?

Hold the material in the back as it plots. Just let it slide through your hands as it goes up and down.
I really cant answer that last question lol

 

[mjohnsonsa]

Guys, I am still having this problem and HP support has been unable to figure it out. I pay them a lot of money each year for the Support Contract and they are SLOOW to respond, sometimes taking a week to reply to emails even though I told them this is effecting business continuity for us! Regardless, I can't imagine being the only person to have this problem. Luckily I was able to capture the issue on video today and maybe you guys can help if you see what is happening?

Let me explain the video before you watch it. The cutter is cutting labels that are about 6" x 4". In this video the first two label are tracking perfectly cutting on the perimeter of the label, then you see on the 3rd and fourth label the cutter goes waaay off. Then it moves to the row below it and starts tracking perfectly again on the first 3 labels, then on labels 4 and 5 it goes way off again. This is the problem I have been seeing happen sporadically for over a year now and nobody can figure it out. I don't know how to get better support from HP but it seems they are terrible with technical support even for those of us paying for the yearly support contracts. Anyway, I feel the video proves a few things;

1) It is not an issue with calibration or OPOS or anything like that because the cutter goes from tracking perfectly to tracking horrible then back to tracking perfectly again. If it was anything related to calibration it would be consistently off.

2) The media is not slipping, if it was after it slipped it would not "correct" and begin tracking just fine again.

3) It is not a problem with the cut file because after I was done taking this video I cancelled the job, jogged the head back to the start position and restarted the job and the second time it ran it cut all of the labels perfectly tracking as it should on the same labels that it previously messed up on in this video.

Here is a link to the video:

Any guidance or affirmation I am not alone would be much appreciated! or if anyone has an "IN" with a higher level tech support at HP who can actually help me please share. Thanks.

Matt

 

[balstestrat]

For some reason it's maximum compensating for bowing on that side where it's going off.
You should be able to print without the barcode, opos marks only. That way you can't compensate for bowing and you should try if that fixes the issue.
You could also film the loading part where it's looking for the marks and during that it should check for the bowing from that thick black bar (barcode).

So right now you are doing OPOS XY (barcode) but you should test only OPOS.

 

[mjohnsonsa]

When it is doing the initial loading and reading the marks the last thing it does is go up and down on the thick black bar, is that when it is looking for bowing? So what do you think would explain why in the middle of a cut it just randomly starts doing the maximum compensation for bowing (if that is what it is doing)? it only happens sometimes and does not have a predictable pattern, I have wasted a ton of prints and media because of it.

Lastly, where do I change it to do only OPOS and not OPOS XY?

Matt

For some reason it's maximum compensating for bowing on that side where it's going off.
You should be able to print without the barcode, opos marks only. That way you can't compensate for bowing and you should try if that fixes the issue.
You could also film the loading part where it's looking for the marks and during that it should check for the bowing from that thick black bar (barcode).

So right now you are doing OPOS XY (barcode) but you should test only OPOS.

 

[balstestrat]

Yes, that's what it's doing, going up and down on the thick black bar looking for bowing.
You should be able to change it in Flexi job settings under marks. There's also an setting for that in the cutter that you should check is not set to "FORCE OPOS XY".

My guess is that something is messed up with the cutter, maybe the main board has some weird issue. Are you using the thick black ethernet cable that the cutter came with or USB? Always use the shielded Ethernet cable if you use LAN.

 

[mjohnsonsa]

I do have it hooked up with the thick black shielded Ethernet Cable. I did your recommendation and we will see if it works. Since the problem is sporadic it may take a while to see if worked. Thanks for the suggestion.

Matt

Yes, that's what it's doing, going up and down on the thick black bar looking for bowing.
You should be able to change it in Flexi job settings under marks. There's also an setting for that in the cutter that you should check is not set to "FORCE OPOS XY".

My guess is that something is messed up with the cutter, maybe the main board has some weird issue. Are you using the thick black ethernet cable that the cutter came with or USB? Always use the shielded Ethernet cable if you use LAN.