Suggestions HP Latex vs Mutoh

[Angela]

We currently have a Mutoh 64" 1604. She's dying a slow death after 8 years running and 3 head replacements. We've been real happy with her, and she's been a real workhorse. Now we are looking for a new printer. We've been pitched quite a bit from various salesmen on the HP Latex, and have notice that the prices have been dropping. I've not been convinced so far about the latex. The quick drying time and non scratch are non issues for me. With the eco-solvent now, we just let it out gas for about 15min and go right to lamination and never had a problem. Most of our work is flat work...ie. print, lam and mount. Any thoughts to chime in on, maybe people that have run both, and what are your thoughts

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Do you run 3rd Party inks?

What doesn't have you sold on the Latex?

 

[BigfishDM]

We currently have a Mutoh 64" 1604. She's dying a slow death after 8 years running and 3 head replacements. We've been real happy with her, and she's been a real workhorse. Now we are looking for a new printer. We've been pitched quite a bit from various salesmen on the HP Latex, and have notice that the prices have been dropping. I've not been convinced so far about the latex. The quick drying time and non scratch are non issues for me. With the eco-solvent now, we just let it out gas for about 15min and go right to lamination and never had a problem. Most of our work is flat work...ie. print, lam and mount. Any thoughts to chime in on, maybe people that have run both, and what are your thoughts

The other great benefits of Latex over the Mutoh will be the amount of applications you can expand to, like fabrics and un-coated papers. Un-attended printing for large runs while your at home sleeping during the night is also a great feature you really can't accomplish effectively with solvent machines that don't dry quick enough. We are hosting a webinar next week by a no nonsense expert in Latex technology if you want to join just go here and I would guarantee your mind will be switched lol.

HP Webinar | Gans Digital Media Solutions | authorized dealer for HP Latex printers, Graftech cutters, and GFP laminators

 

[Solventinkjet]

The other great benefits of Latex over the Mutoh will be the amount of applications you can expand to, like fabrics and un-coated papers. Un-attended printing for large runs while your at home sleeping during the night is also a great feature you really can't accomplish effectively with solvent machines that don't dry quick enough. We are hosting a webinar next week by a no nonsense expert in Latex technology if you want to join just go here and I would guarantee your mind will be switched lol.

HP Webinar | Gans Digital Media Solutions | authorized dealer for HP Latex printers, Graftech cutters, and GFP laminators

Saying that solvent can't print on uncoated paper and can't run overnight is very misleading. Solvent was specifically made to print on non-coated media and in 9 years and 1000's of solvent customers, I have never run into a situation where someone couldn't print overnight. The ink is dry as soon as it comes off the platen. Not trying call you out. Latex definitely has some good features especially when it comes to environmental and health issues but just wanted to make sure OP was getting good info.

 

[BigfishDM]

Saying that solvent can't print on uncoated paper and can't run overnight is very misleading. Solvent was specifically made to print on non-coated media and in 9 years and 1000's of solvent customers, I have never run into a situation where someone couldn't print overnight. The ink is dry as soon as it comes off the platen. Not trying call you out. Latex definitely has some good features especially when it comes to environmental and health issues but just wanted to make sure OP was getting good info.

I understand your point, I just know there are many more options in the paper world that you cant get for solvent. For instance: All the compliance posters in this country are printed on my 5 Mil Latex Paper because the price point is the most aggressive out there but it will not run in Solvent or Eco-Solvent. I can run all the C1S offset papers in latex but I have not been able to get them to work in Solvent machines. Doing un-attended printing with Solvent is not easy, especially if you plan on using a takeup reel lol.

I think Mutoh makes a great machine and the price point and quality are great also. I just honestly think I can do more with Latex then with Solvent and I honestly think the dry times are much better with Latex or UV over solvent.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Doing un-attended printing with Solvent is not easy, especially if you plan on using a takeup reel lol.

Yes it's so difficult that thousands of shops do it every day with no issues, honestly the misinformation you spread on here about solvent vs. latex is getting ridiculous. In 10+ years of running a Roland, I've had 1 instance where the print wasn't dry enough by the time it hit the take up to cause issues and it was a faulty batch of paper. I've read plenty of stories on here of people who don't get their settings just right on the HP machine and had the same issues due to not enough heat.

 

[Jacob]

I have both HP latex and Roland eco solvent. While you can def do Unattended printing with both. The drying issue and ink cost are better with the latex. Being able to print cloth on the latex instead of my uv has saved me some machine time. also I think the print quality on the latex for backlit and paper is better than the Roland. Its ford vs chevy either one will do you a great job latex is faster and cheaper ink

 

[BigfishDM]

Yes it's so difficult that thousands of shops do it every day with no issues, honestly the misinformation you spread on here about solvent vs. latex is getting ridiculous. In 10+ years of running a Roland, I've had 1 instance where the print wasn't dry enough by the time it hit the take up to cause issues and it was a faulty batch of paper. I've read plenty of stories on here of people who don't get their settings just right on the HP machine and had the same issues due to not enough heat.

I could understand your view on my opinions of the HP Latex. I honestly don't mean to mis-inform anyone on here about the technology. If you say you can do un-attended printing with your Roland then that is great but me personally have not had many clients with success doing it. (Unless they had an external heater setup in front of it) I also see many posts from you that really bashes the technology and I respect your opinion sir.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I could understand your view on my opinions of the HP Latex. I honestly don't mean to mis-inform anyone on here about the technology. If you say you can do un-attended printing with your Roland then that is great but me personally have not had many clients with success doing it. (Unless they had an external heater setup in front of it) I also see many posts from you that really bashes the technology and I respect your opinion sir.

I don't remember bashing the Latex technology, I honestly think it's cool, I toyed around with the idea of buying a 360 but ended up getting the VG-640 instead. What I have an issue with is every thread about solvent vs. latex you seem to invent issues with the solvent machines in order to make the HP seem like the obvious choice, your post above is an example of this, I have never heard of someone needing to run a external heater on the roland in order to dry prints before they hit the takeup reel, possibly if you are running on the highest speed possible and your profile is laying down way too much ink, but we both know neither the HP or Solvent machines are meant to be run at maximum speed if you want to be able to sell the end result.

In regards to media for both machines, The HP has the ability to print on some things that the solvent can't, and vise versa, from what i've read the HP has issues with certain medias such as low cost vinyls and papers due to the high heat causing the media to buckle, also some people have reported issues plotting vinyl after printing on the latex due to the heat causing the vinyl to bow.

I'm all for pushing a product that you sell, but please try to be a little less biased, or at the least make it clear that you are an HP sales rep

 

[BigfishDM]

I don't remember bashing the Latex technology, I honestly think it's cool, I toyed around with the idea of buying a 360 but ended up getting the VG-640 instead. What I have an issue with is every thread about solvent vs. latex you seem to invent issues with the solvent machines in order to make the HP seem like the obvious choice, your post above is an example of this, I have never heard of someone needing to run a external heater on the roland in order to dry prints before they hit the takeup reel, possibly if you are running on the highest speed possible and your profile is laying down way too much ink, but we both know neither the HP or Solvent machines are meant to be run at maximum speed if you want to be able to sell the end result.

In regards to media for both machines, The HP has the ability to print on some things that the solvent can't, and vise versa, from what i've read the HP has issues with certain medias such as low cost vinyls and papers due to the high heat causing the media to buckle, also some people have reported issues plotting vinyl after printing on the latex due to the heat causing the vinyl to bow.

I'm all for pushing a product that you sell, but please try to be a little less biased, or at the least make it clear that you are an HP sales rep

Fair Enough Watson Signs, I will do a better job for you and the rest of the members in here on NOT showing bias towards Latex. Just so everyone knows, I am an HP Latex dealer but I am also a very large Mimaki dealer so I do sell both technologies. I have spent a lot years on this site trying to honestly help anyone I can on here with materials and applications and I happen to deal with hundreds of users on this forum so if anything I have posted has offended you or upset you then I want to sincerely apologize.

 

[Signed Out]

We can't run unattended printing on our Rolands, but it has nothing to do with inksets or dry times.

It has everything to do with the crappy take up reels that Rolands come with.

The only time I've had issues with ink not being dry before it hits the takeup is when double hitting heavy coverage on backlit film. Literally the only instance in 7+years of running Rolands.

So saying solvent printers can't be run unattended due to the ink is a moot point.

What model do you have? Our xj540's take up works great. Unattended printing has never been a problem for us. Never tried an unattended double struck print before though. I've heard the take up on the xr's was a joke, but thought they got them straightened out?

 

[CanuckSigns]

We've got a 7 year old XC-540 and a 2 year old XR-640 and I wouldn't trust either one of them for more than an hour printing to the take up without a babysitter.

The take up on the XR is a joke. We had the hole stand/take up replaced and countless band aids installed and still tracks like garbage. Print/cut without take up - unattended all night long no issues. We can print/cut a whole 54" roll worth of labels overnight and have never had a problem. Throw that vinyl on the take up and you're in for a nasty surprise.

I have (possibly) made a breakthrough with it though. Started using plastic cores that come with some Drytac materials and it seems to track much better than the Roland take up core. I think the main issue is how much play there is on the whole take up assembly.... but who knows why it works for most people with Rolands. Try telling Roland that your printer won't track and they act like you're the fool that can't load a printer.

I'll never by another one.

We have a VG-640 and as far as I know the take up itself is exactly the same it's the TU-2 unit. we havn't had any issues with it at all, the odd time if I'm not paying attention when I load it it can wander a bit, but never enough to cause any issues.

When ours was being installed, I asked our tech about the takeup issues from the Pro-4 units, he said he's had to fix a few of them and everytime it's been that the tech who put the printer together, didn't follow the proper steps as far as tightening and torquing the bolts.

 

[rjssigns]

Whether eco-solvent or latex, modern printers from a reputable brand all do a great job.

Here is a super simple way to make the decision. Which manufacturer can have a tech on site within 24 hours? All brand B.S. aside, you buy from the company that has stellar service and can get you back to printing same or next day, period.

ALL printers break and waiting days for a tech to arrive will kill a business faster than you think.

P.S.: Also make sure they have service parts in stock. Getting a tech on site in a couple hours means nothing if it takes weeks to get the replacement.

Learned all this $hit the hard, expensive way.

 

[bilge]

To get both of them each. Your sales will increase, offering more products, less downtime, less waste even a tech rep shows up much faster (just tell them your printer is not working your competitor's fine). If you buy Mutoh only, the life continues as is, nothing happens. If you buy latex only then you may face stiff learning curve and maybe frustrated, if your root is not designjet. It's a different beast.
Both have pros and cons and difficult to weigh, together they compensate each other. You can divide your jobs like short runs on Mutoh, long runs on latex or SAV and banners on Mutoh, backlit, fabrics and papers on latex. If your budget is short for two, borrow some money for latex. You can pay it back by saved money from Mutoh's waste ink.

 

[Enric]

hello everyone
in my experiences, hp latex works really well.

I need your opinion on this guys, Me and my team are planning to buy xeikon 3500 for wallpaper mfg application. anyone who has background about this machine, the pros and cons.
any info will be much appreciated.
thanks in advance.

 

[Zendavor Signs]

We currently have a Mutoh 64" 1604. She's dying a slow death after 8 years running and 3 head replacements. We've been real happy with her, and she's been a real workhorse. Now we are looking for a new printer. We've been pitched quite a bit from various salesmen on the HP Latex, and have notice that the prices have been dropping. I've not been convinced so far about the latex. The quick drying time and non scratch are non issues for me. With the eco-solvent now, we just let it out gas for about 15min and go right to lamination and never had a problem. Most of our work is flat work...ie. print, lam and mount. Any thoughts to chime in on, maybe people that have run both, and what are your thoughts

I would say stick with what you know. If your Mutoh has been working great for 8 years, then get another one. We have a 360 Latex printer and I think it is great. But it's not perfect. No outgassing is it's greatest benefit, but it sounds like you have that figured out already.

 

[Bly]

We do a lot of short term window decals on monomeric vinyl.
With the latex they really don't need to be laminated so we're saving time & money.
On our old Rolands unlammed prints were too stretchy from solvents and weren't as scratch resistant so nearly everything had to be laminated.

 

[reQ]

I would try latex if i would have spare cash to spend. When i am used to 1 workflow, its hard to switch, unless you really have to

 

[Bly]

I should add you can cut unlammed full bleed latex graphics straight off the printer without them curling up.

 

[bannertime]

I love my HP 330. We've had it about a year now. Our previous printers had been a 60in Graphtec Print/Cut Signjet and a 60in PrismJet.

Pros:
Allows for same day, 1 hour, or occasionally "while you wait" turn around. (Finish/Lam ready off the platen)
Easy change inks and print heads. (A tall infant could do it.)
Little to no user maintenance. (Maintenance kit every few months)
Worry free unattended roll to roll printing. (Simple, effective take up reel system.)
Front load, but...see cons.

Cons:
Media load/unload sucks. You need 5 feet of clear space to the right to "easily" change material.
Colors can be tricky. (Took us a bit to find a red for 6 pass banners.)
"Head strikes" in the middle of certain medias if vacuum/heat settings aren't right.

That's all I got. Take what you want from it.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Fair Enough Watson Signs, I will do a better job for you and the rest of the members in here on NOT showing bias towards Latex. Just so everyone knows, I am an HP Latex dealer but I am also a very large Mimaki dealer so I do sell both technologies. I have spent a lot years on this site trying to honestly help anyone I can on here with materials and applications and I happen to deal with hundreds of users on this forum so if anything I have posted has offended you or upset you then I want to sincerely apologize.

Personally, I've never been offended by any of your posts! I respect and appreciate your opinions and views on BOTH technologies! I have both in my shop and there are plusses and minuses to both. HP has done a phenomenal job with their newer 300 series and beyond as far as heat and media issues. I can run a lot more on my 360 than I could with my older (may it RIP) 25500!! I agree with all the points you make on Latex vs. EcoSolvent, and I agree with some of the stuff that the SolventHeads (my own pet name) say about that technology. Yes... I do favour and "push" Latex, but that's because I run BOTH systems and feel I have a right to give an opinion on both! But... let's not make this a Latex vs. Solvent fight because they are both GREAT technologies (even though Latex is better!!) :Big Laugh:ROFLMAO:

 

[premiercolour]

Fair Enough Watson Signs, I will do a better job for you and the rest of the members in here on NOT showing bias towards Latex. Just so everyone knows, I am an HP Latex dealer but I am also a very large Mimaki dealer so I do sell both technologies. I have spent a lot years on this site trying to honestly help anyone I can on here with materials and applications and I happen to deal with hundreds of users on this forum so if anything I have posted has offended you or upset you then I want to sincerely apologize.

Don't like the bolt and capitalized sentence replied. Opinions are biased. What's your opinion about Mimaki Eco/Mild Solvent vs HP Latex?