I Just Have To Vent

[DPD]

The past two days have 'sign-wise' have just been miserable. Two customers and two problems.

First problem was that I had a post shipped direct to a customer. It's one of those steel posts 17 ft long. In my phone call to the manufacturer I say this is a drop ship please do not put any packing slip or any information that can be tracked back. Send the invoice and shipping information to me. So what happens? Of course the manufacturer not only puts the packing slip on the outside of the shipping container but also includes the price for the product and the shipping.

Second problem. I make a simpe 48x72 inch alumalite sign using vinyl lettering and a contour cut graphic. Customer is upset because I didn't mention that I wasn't printing the sign. It seems she thinks the vinyl will peel off and she doesn't like the look of a contour cut graphic. I'm trying to tell her that many signs that are going to be used outdoors for post/panel signage are made this way. Nope! She wants it printed. Of course I tell her the print will not have the longevity of the cut vinyl but it doesn't matter. So, I go back to the proof and there it say CC Vinyl (computer cut vinyl). Her husband signed off on the proof without her understanding (I suppose) of how the sign was being built.

End of the day, I get no money back on the post (I knew that was a long-shot) but now I have to think of how I'm going to handle the extra $450 for a new printed sign.

Aarrghh!!!

 

[White Haus]

For problem #2 - did the customer pay for the sign already? If so, let them walk. Customers don't get to dictate/dispute how signs are made after the fact and after they signed off on jobs.

 

[Gino]

I almost, as in never, drop ship. It always comes here, so we can inspect it and then instal it.

I wouldn't think anyone would know or remember if you had told them what CC vinyl is. That's a toughie.

 

[DPD]

For problem #2 - did the customer pay for the sign already? If so, let them walk. Customers don't get to dictate/dispute how signs are made after the fact and after they signed off on jobs.

Yup. Sign is paid for. The proof does read CC Vinyl and it was never questioned. I'm not typically a guy who likes to play hardball but then again I priced a printed sign and it's going to cost me $460
Edit:: If I purchase just the prints (need 2) and have them laminated it would cost $150. That's the other way to go but I'll have to be perfect in my application

 

[victor bogdanov]

Yup. Sign is paid for. The proof does read CC Vinyl and it was never questioned. I'm not typically a guy who likes to play hardball but then again I priced a printed sign and it's going to cost me $460

How is a 48x72 print going to cost you $460 ?

Print and apply to the same board, under $100 fix

 

[DPD]

How is a 48x72 print going to cost you $460 ?

Print and apply to the same board, under $100 fix

I outsource all my printing now and it's two sides. So at first, I looked at redoing the sign by purchasing the substrate printed and having it shipped to me. Now that you mention it, I can have the print made a lot cheaper and just remove the vinyl and reapply. I have the print priced at $150 (need 2) with lamination. This customer will look at the laydown and if she sees a couple of tiny bubbles she will reject the entire sign. It would certainly be a challenge to laydown a 4x6 print on two sides without 1 darned bubble.

 

[DPD]

I almost, as in never, drop ship. It always comes here, so we can inspect it and then instal it.

I wouldn't think anyone would know or remember if you had told them what CC vinyl is. That's a toughie.

Yeah, for the first part it does take a bit of trust. But, I can live with it as it's a one off customer. I don't expect to be doing business for a long time
The CC vinyl is a bit rough but I've been through conversations with the customer explaining that I would be using vinyl lettering. The customer kept the sign for now and is going to see how they feel about it. In the meantime, I'm going to see what can be done to make this fair for everyone because I'm just not sure if I should take the entire hit on the sign. At no time did the customer ever mention that they wanted the sign printed so I figure I do things my way.

 

[victor bogdanov]

I have to outsource my printing now. I don't have the equipment.

4 x 6 ft print is still under $100 even outsourced

 

[Gino]

No way, that piece of digitally printed and laminated piece will cost you anywhere near $450. Maybe $96 plus your time to put it on. Besides, I thought you had an HP printer, based upon your other posts ??

 

[DPD]

No way, that piece of digitally printed and laminated piece will cost you anywhere near $450. Maybe $96 plus your time to put it on. Besides, I thought you had an HP printer, based upon your other posts ??

I used to have the HP printer. I sold it and haven't replaced it. You have a good memory. The challenge for me is laying down two 4x6 digital prints without 1 bubble. This customer inspects with a microscope. I can get the two 4x6 prints with shipping and lamination for $150. Hopefully, I can lay it down perfectly.

 

[DPD]

4 x 6 ft print is still under $100 even outsourced

Yeah, I didn't think print when we first spoke. I was thinking replacement of entire sign. Outsourced prints with lamination (2) will be $150. Customer looks the sign over with an eagle eye so I'll have to be perfect in my application of the print.

 

[Gino]

Used to have........ good memory..... whatever. The fact remains for an air egress laminated vinyl you can get it for less than $100 each.

If these people use a microscope, maybe you're in over your head. Perhaps they didn't read the quote with a scope. Just maybe, you need to put your foot down and tell them this is how it is and be done with it.

Also, make sure your quotes are clear to everyone and you explain yourself better instead of using acronyms which don't really identify much of anything.
In our quoting programs, I have so many line items entered into our system, it always explains things perfectly, to avoid situations like this. If you're doing your quotes by hand, get with the times, casue a handshake and simple nod don't work anymore. Ya need it in writing and not hidden before entering into a contract of any nature. Personally, I've never seen or heard of CC Vinyl. That could mean calendared coated vinyl.

 

[White Haus]

I wouldn't be replacing anything for free. The customer ordered and approved a sign, you provided a sign. If you're really determined to make them happy (which sounds like they'll never be) offer to take the signs back and mount prints to the backside at cost.

Do you have a laminator? Mounting 4x6 prints with a laminator should produce a perfect result.

 

[DPD]

I wouldn't be replacing anything for free. The customer ordered and approved a sign, you provided a sign. If you're really determined to make them happy (which sounds like they'll never be) offer to take the signs back and mount prints to the backside at cost.

Do you have a laminator? Mounting 4x6 prints with a laminator should produce a perfect result.

No laminator. If I do it, it will be by hand and I'll probaby do a wet application. I haven't done a wet application in years and I don't remember if the darn liquid will dissipate with a laminate on the print or if its even advisable to do a wet application with a laminated vinyl. I'll have to look this stuff up.

Also, the way things are going I think you said the magic words: "mount prints to the backside at cost." If I don't say that I may get stung for not printing direct to substrate.

 

[JBurton]

I haven't done a wet application in years and I don't remember if the darn liquid will dissipate with a laminate on the print or if its even advisable to do a wet application with a laminated vinyl

Assuming that most printed materials these days are air egress, you will not want to wet apply. Or rather, if you wet apply, it will fail before you get it off the table and in a truck. Try the center tape hinge method, or apply the first 6", pull the liner back until it makes a cylinder, and use that to hold it off the material as you sqeegee down slowly and evenly across that edge, curling the vinyl into the cylinder shape as you go.

End of the day, I get no money back on the post (I knew that was a long-shot)

What was the problem with the post, other than the customer realizing that you are marking up another persons product? Here's the big news for your customer, walmart isn't paying .59/lb of bananas, they are paying half that or less. The banana farmers are happy to sell to you at the same price, if you want to order a bajillion or more at a time. The post manufacturer should only offer to sell to distributors and companies at this wholesale price, if you want to start your own post/sign company, I'm sure they'd be happy to deal with you at these prices as well!
Or did you expect to get money back from the distributor for failing to follow instructions?

 

[DPD]

Assuming that most printed materials these days are air egress, you will not want to wet apply. Or rather, if you wet apply, it will fail before you get it off the table and in a truck. Try the center tape hinge method, or apply the first 6", pull the liner back until it makes a cylinder, and use that to hold it off the material as you sqeegee down slowly and evenly across that edge, curling the vinyl into the cylinder shape as you go.

What was the problem with the post, other than the customer realizing that you are marking up another persons product? Here's the big news for your customer, walmart isn't paying .59/lb of bananas, they are paying half that or less. The banana farmers are happy to sell to you at the same price, if you want to order a bajillion or more at a time. The post manufacturer should only offer to sell to distributors and companies at this wholesale price, if you want to start your own post/sign company, I'm sure they'd be happy to deal with you at these prices as well!
Or did you expect to get money back from the distributor for failing to follow instructions?

I was taking a long shot and hoping to get money back from the distributor for the failure to follow instructions. They gave my customer their name and their prices and this distributor is the type that would deal direct and bypass me. Well, at the end of the day I cut my margins and still made some money on the post.

It's embarrassing also to have a customer tell me what my wholesale prices were for shipping and product and where who the distributor is.

Thanks for the info on whether to do a wet application. I thought I remembered that it was a no-no to go wet with a lamination on the vinyl but I wasn't sure. This will be quite tricky because I'll have to reach 4 ft which is at best as far as I can reach (laminator goes up to 42 inches) and wow, this is the pickiest customer I've ever had when it comes to vinyl application or a sign build. I made the mistake of abbreviating computer cut vinyl as CC vinyl on the proof and even though it's been mentioned to her husband that I was using vinyl and he signed off on the proof I'm not sure how much he told her about things or if he even knew what I was saying when I told him I was using vinyl.

This is the first time I've ever had a customer tell me they were unhappy with a sign because I used vinyl or as she puts it "stickers" on a sign. In her words: "I'm paying for stickers?" And then she tells me she can pick off the vinyl so how good could it be? Which by the way she tried with her nail and couldn't do it of course.

Then she tells me perhaps they'll (her/husband) will keep the sign and gives me the remainder of the deposit.

 

[netsol]

by the sound of this customer, knowing they would "go around" me the next time would make me feel like i won
the lottery.

 

[Boudica]

I would say you're sign is a done deal and that transaction is over. Unless it's a good customer and you expect a lot more return business from them and you need to keep that relationship... Call it a day on that one. Lesson learned for them to know what they are approving when they order a sign.

 

[DPD]

I was taking a long shot and hoping to get money back from the distributor for the failure to follow instructions. They gave my customer their name and their prices and this distributor is the type that would deal direct and bypass me. Well, at the end of the day I cut my margins and still made some money on the post.

It's embarrassing also to have a customer tell me what my wholesale prices were for shipping and product and where who the distributor is.

Thanks for the info on whether to do a wet application. I thought I remembered that it was a no-no to go wet with a lamination on the vinyl but I wasn't sure. This will be quite tricky because I'll have to reach 4 ft which is at best as far as I can reach (laminator goes up to 42 inches) and wow, this is the pickiest customer I've ever had when it comes to vinyl application or a sign build. I made the mistake of abbreviating computer cut vinyl as CC vinyl on the proof and even though it's been mentioned to her husband that I was using vinyl and he signed off on the proof I'm not sure how much he told her about things or if he even knew what I was saying when I told him I was using vinyl.

This is the first time I've ever had a customer tell me they were unhappy with a sign because I used vinyl or as she puts it "stickers" on a sign. In her words: "I'm paying for stickers?" And then she tells me she can pick off the vinyl so how good could it be? Which by the way she tried with her nail and couldn't do it of course.

I would say you're sign is a done deal and that transaction is over. Unless it's a good customer and you expect a lot more return business from them and you need to keep that relationship... Call it a day on that one. Lesson learned for them to know what they are approving when they order a sign.

Yeah, I agree with you. I've had time to think about it and if the issue arises it will be this week or next.

 

[Proofread People]

I used to have the HP printer. I sold it and haven't replaced it. You have a good memory. The challenge for me is laying down two 4x6 digital prints without 1 bubble. This customer inspects with a microscope. I can get the two 4x6 prints with shipping and lamination for $150. Hopefully, I can lay it down perfectly