I need to pick one! Please help!

[thewvsignguy]

Hello all and Happy Holidays!

We are buying a new eco-sol printer next week with a budget of $13,000.00 and have narrowed it down to 3 different print and cut options.

Roland SP-300i a proven system not the fastest out there but with the printer, inks, media, free setup and delivery through the least expensive of the 3 with a 28" print/cut area for $12,400.00 and a 1 year warranty.

Mamaki CJV30-100 twice as fast as the roland (print speed), 16 440 ink cartridges include, free media, free setup and delivery, 2 year warranty for $13,000.00. But it has a 40.5" print/cut area and a maximum media width of 42", kinda odd and hard to get media for this machine.

Signwarehouse 48" Mutoh-made PrismJET VJ with the 54" cutter, Flexi 10 pro, 4 220ml inks and some media free shipping for $13,000.00. 90 day tech support is included but this leaves a BIG footprint in our shop and wonder if it's to much to soon. The 50" media is a little hard to find too.

I would like to know if you have one of these units what are the pros and cons, what do you love and what do you wish you could change? Any help would be great.

Thanks, Sean

 

[jiarby]

what products do you plan on selling? How do you make money today?

 

[thewvsignguy]

Mostly wall decals, lots of stickers, local signs and posters. 95% of our business in internet based, we make a product and in a few months it starts to sell. Most of our products that we currently sell are around 12" X 12". We have been getting wholesalers to do most of our work but really want to make everything in house (within reason). I know we will not be able to do everything that comes through the door but we can sub that stuff out.

 

[Kemble]

I have the sign warehouse package and am very happy with it. It sucked that support was gone after 90 days although Signs101 continues to help me out. I know you said you only have a budget for 13K but I would look into getting the lam if you could, don't worry about the take up reel as you can get a cheaper aftermarket one over the one they sell. Laminating 48" of material by hand can't be too easy for things over 2ft unless you got a big arse work bench and a helper.

 

[thewvsignguy]

Thanks for the input. How easy was the mutoh to set up? Any real problems with the whole process and how is the print and cut work flow working for you? for what we do I really don't think the lam is worth the space especially if we do the SW package. If something does require the lam then we will just sub that out.

 

[Kemble]

What ever works for you. The Mutoh was real easy to set up. Once the stand is put together you just slap the printer on top, take out the print head lock, load the inks and flush the system 1-2 times and your ready to print. Connecting it was easy too, just as simple as adding a desktop printer except you designate an IP which is just part of the process.

SW advises you to call them when you are ready to turn your printer on, they will walk you through it step by step over the phone, takes about 20 minutes and your done.

Print/cut is very easy, just got to remember to print the correct registration marks, leave yourself enough material for the rollers to grab onto, and your rockin and rollin.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I'd go with the Mimaki all day long.

 

[bayshorecreations]

I like my new Roland versaart

 

[iSign]

I'd go with the Mimaki all day long.

+1

...it has a 40.5" print/cut area and a maximum media width of 42", kinda odd and hard to get media for this machine.

it's not hard to get media for that machine... it's just harder to get 42" media.. so what, nobody ever ordered a 42" sign that I can recall, just print 38" banners, or 36" vinyl...

or, consider how much more for a 54" Mimaki, in terms of how much higher each month... you might be surprised, and then think about how many larger jobs you might need to get per year, to make that higher payment....

 

[John Butto]

HP latex

I have owned all three of the machines mentioned but next one will be the HP latex and they make one in the 42" for a really good deal which would leave money left for plotter and laminator. Lower maintenance, better for your health with no fumes and an array of materials on the market for it. There is a member here called "BigFish" who sells them.

 

[The Equipment Guy]

If you can afford it I think the CJV is the best of the 3 you describe, having sold them all. Yes its got some extra rarely usable width, but thats an advantage. Great machine, and everyone who I have sold them to loves them.

Heck...I gotta go unwrap some gifts...see ya! Merry Christmas.

Craig

 

[thewvsignguy]

Merry Christmas and thanks for all the replies!

Insignia:
In your opinion, what makes the mamaki better then the other two?

Bay shore creations:
Why did you buy the Roland over the other brands out there?

isign:
The big problem with the media is our closest supplier does not cut down rolled media. The media has to be shipped ups and that cost more $$$ and it's kind of a waste paying for a roll of media and throwing the drop away. I can deal with a little waste but is any one of the above machines worth buying because it's just a better machine?

John Butto:
I have not looked at the Latex printers but will do a little research and see if it fits our needs. I like the idea of NO fumes or odor but also have to find a dealer and see if we fit a latex printer in our budget.

 

[Gary Wiant]

Go with the Mimaki, you can run 24, 30 or 36" media through it you don't have to use the full width. plus with the Mimaki you can run ss21 inks and the output will last a lot longer then the Eco inks will. I just went through what you are doing I was between the HP 25500 (Latex), Epson GS6000 and the JV33, I was replacing the Mimaki JV3 and no matter how cool the other printers features looked I just couldn't get past the ink durability that you get with the SS21 inks.

Thanks and Good Luck

 

[jwright350]

I would say go with the roland...even though I have mutoh w/ flexi.

Honestly mutoh/flexi/sign warehouse is not for the faint at heart and not for the novice SW is absolutely no help, and once support runs out your are dead. Roland has much better support, and all in one machine gets you up and running faster.

The only thing that matters to me is support. Everything is great when the machines are working, but once they go down you are loosing customers and money every second.

I had the equivalent bundle from SW 5 years ago, but mine also included a laminator. The laminator never worked and after a year of fighting with it SW stopped selling them and refused support. I ended up spending 7 grand on another laminator.

Setting up the countor cutting with seperate printer and cutter is simple...once you've done it. But SW never could explain it to me...took days and days to figure it out on my own. Oh yeah, and don't think you can call Graphtec or Mutoh direct...they won't talk to you either since you are a SW customer.

Don't even get me started on color profiles. They (SW) were only ever able to provide me with 1 profile. It was a 4c profile for my 6c printer. And it didn't even work! It took me years to figure out that I needed a color meter and learned how to make my own profiles. They showed their true colors when they tried to "help" me by just playing with the settings in flexi...once I learned how to write a profile I discovered their ways were the exact opposite of how you actually do it.

Oh, and although I do use flexi (I actually have a legit copy!)...its a buggy piece of junk that crashes all the time. I've had it on XP, Vista, Win7 on brand new computers with no other software. It still crashes all the time. I just can't justify $5 grand for a full copy of Onyx.

(I currently have 3 mutohs and 2 colorspans)

 

[petesign]

Get a Mimaki. But buy the plotter as a separate unit... Trust me, you will regret it if you don't. Mimaki makes a nice budget plotter, the CG130-SRII that cuts anything you need it to It detects register marks, etc.. and you aren't stopping your printer every time you need to cut.

 

[speedmedia]

I agree with petesign. If you are going to go this route buy an additional cutter that will read crop marks. Too many times you will find yourself printing only to need the cutter as well, it is good for space but it is a huge production bottleneck.


I would pick Mimaki over all of them but the Mutoh is going to be the most productive with separate units.

How do you plan to laminate or do you plan to laminate at all? Anything digital using these sort of printers lamination is a must!

Thanks,
Kurt
Thanks,
Kurt

 

[thewvsignguy]

Thanks again for the input!

I was 90% sure we were going with the Mutoh set up from SW today. My sales rep keeps sweetening the deal and is making it very hard to refuse. I do not want to chase my tail with color profiles, I have done that in the past with a Colorspan 72UVR and a old encad. It's a pure headache that I do not want to deal with.

I'm still running Flexi 7.6 pro so I kinda understand how to profile the colors but that is what is appealing about veraworks.

I have leaned away from the Mimaki because the smell of their eco-inks. It's also the same price as the Mutoh but I'm getting way more (I think) from SW.

Most of the stuff we do today that makes us money is indoor wall decals so laminating is not a concern right now. Plus we do not have the room in our current space to fit a laminater. So the Roland is very appealing because of what we do right now, smaller footprint, color profiles, cost and tech support.

Uggh!! I just do not want to regret this 6 months down the road. Thanks Again!!

 

[speedmedia]

I would rethink that laminating comment before I get too against it. I see more stuff that isn't laminated with curled up edges and defects of the sort. Inside or out everything we produced now gets laminated.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[thewvsignguy]

I guess the big squegee will work for most of our work. And that means that the media will have to be taken out of the printer before it's cut. I will not be the only person working with this equipment, so it still needs to be a simple and straight forward workflow.

 

[petesign]

In about 2 months, you are going to post how much you hate not having a laminator.... how many jobs you have had to reprint because they were damaged because you were in a hurry, etc. If I were you, I would heed the advice of folks here. Trust me, I learned the hard way that you are about to learn.. I thought my printer was the only big expenditure I needed to justify.

It's like buying an exotic sports car and telling the dealership you don't want any tires, and you drive off on the rims all excited about how good the engine sounds.

Buy a separate cutter, and a laminator. And a good laminator while you are at it... if you have to, buy used. Put everything on wheels, so when you don't need the laminator you can move it out of the way. Make your production table in pieces, all on wheels.. etc. If I told you how small the production area in my shop is, you wouldn't believe me... but we can do just about anything in that tiny little room, because we thought ahead.