Ink Cost per print Study at Mutoh - MISSINFORMATION!?

[messmedia]

So, I was going through some documents, trying to figure out cost of ink per print on Mutoh VJ series, and I found this document at Mutoh's site (I think it was linked from this forum):

http://www.mutoh.com/pdf/VJ12041604InkCostStudy.pdf

There is some pretty bad misinformation in this document, or I got something wrong??
First image is calculated ok (matematicaly, don't know if information is correct for print cost), but second one seems to be a type error, or was it intentional?
They calculated cost of Eco-Ultra ink, printed at 720x720 dpi, from 220ml cartridge that costed 60$ (at the time of making that test).
The test said it spent 13.68ml of ink, for 11.25 sq.ft. Simple mathematics:

(60/220)*13.68=3.73$
- this is (cost per 1ml) x 13.68 ml of ink spent, and it seems it spent 3.73$ of ink for this image. The test said 2.73$.

So, where did that buck go? :{) - it is around 26% of a price, which is a lot, even for smaller runs!!!

But, cost per sq. ft. is ok - 0.33$*11.25=3.71$ :{) - marketing or what??

If someone did calculate real-use cost of ink for print on Your mutohs - please SHARE.

Finer print modes (1440x1440 dpi) - how the cost of ink spent is compared to 720 x 720 dpi? - Is it two times more ink spent, or some other ratio???
This is very important to me, since I still did not buy the darn machine :{) - but now I just have to!

Also, I tried to find answer at this forum, somebody did mention some price - around 0.5$ per 1sq.ft., if the image is very dark (hard on color) - don't know if that is true.

Thanx in advance for any answer or information You might share ... :{)

 

[Checkers]

I didn't look at the file. but a couple of things come to mind...

1 - they probably just average the costs using a variety of files - some light, some dark, different densities, etc.,

2 - costs/prices could have gone up since the piece was published, and

3 - proper profiles can make a huge difference. There's no reason to put down more ink than what is needed. Using the proper profiles helps you do that.

Checkers

 

[3dsignco]

Look at this formula.. Fine it costs you $.33 a square ft.. You charge $10 sgft.. Making money.. Also a sgft cost is insane.. To many variables.. Do a banner or print with a black background.. You are using all the inks Not just black so Higher cost now a tan background. Hardly any ink at all.

Trying to figure out ink usage is like herding CATS.. It will drive you insane.

 

[trakers]

Very easy to do with Wasatch. Who knows just how accurate it is, but has to be more accurate than trying to figure by hand.

If I understand correctly Wasatch looks at the actual ink that will go down based on the graphic and selected profile. That said, I set our cart cost at $210 in the program to help compensate for wasted ink during cleanings and the 5% or so that you throw away with a used cart and as you say ink costs are but a tiny fraction of the finished product retail cost.

 

[iSign]

if you sort jobs by type, I would look at annual ink costs, & annual digital printing revenue... and i would have a percentage of price for my ink costs. I don't need to try to guess how many pennies are spent on each job... if I know I spend $3K on ink, for every $100K worth of printing sold... I think I know enough

 

[randya]

So, I was going through some documents, trying to figure out cost of ink per print on Mutoh VJ series, and I found this document at Mutoh's site (I think it was linked from this forum):

http://www.mutoh.com/pdf/VJ12041604InkCostStudy.pdf

There is some pretty bad misinformation in this document, or I got something wrong??
First image is calculated ok (matematicaly, don't know if information is correct for print cost), but second one seems to be a type error, or was it intentional?
They calculated cost of Eco-Ultra ink, printed at 720x720 dpi, from 220ml cartridge that costed 60$ (at the time of making that test).
The test said it spent 13.68ml of ink, for 11.25 sq.ft. Simple mathematics:

(60/220)*13.68=3.73$
- this is (cost per 1ml) x 13.68 ml of ink spent, and it seems it spent 3.73$ of ink for this image. The test said 2.73$.

So, where did that buck go? :{) - it is around 26% of a price, which is a lot, even for smaller runs!!!

But, cost per sq. ft. is ok - 0.33$*11.25=3.71$ :{) - marketing or what??

If someone did calculate real-use cost of ink for print on Your mutohs - please SHARE.

Finer print modes (1440x1440 dpi) - how the cost of ink spent is compared to 720 x 720 dpi? - Is it two times more ink spent, or some other ratio???
This is very important to me, since I still did not buy the darn machine :{) - but now I just have to!

Also, I tried to find answer at this forum, somebody did mention some price - around 0.5$ per 1sq.ft., if the image is very dark (hard on color) - don't know if that is true.

Thanx in advance for any answer or information You might share ... :{)

The dollar went into my pocket.......

Sorry, it was a simple typo that no one caught until now.
Thanks!

You had me worried about my math skills....

You are correct, it should have been $3.73 and not $2.73

After rounding though, the cost per sq.ft. is still $.33.



In theory it takes the same amount of ink to give the same density of 'color' on the same media, regardless of resolution.

I dont currently have any 1440 profiles to do the ink calculation but perhaps someone here on the board does.


http://www.mutoh.com/kb/entry/30/

 

[messmedia]

Look at this formula.. Fine it costs you $.33 a square ft.. You charge $10 sgft.. Making money..

Now, that is the math I like.:{)
However, here (Montenegro, Europe), 1 sq meter (around 11 sq ft) printed PVC vinyl for example, is sold for around 18 euros (around 25$) without montage - just the print - so, it is that FAMOUS 2.72$/sq ft :{)). , and I have it for 12euros at my supplier (but, that is considered EXTREMELY good deal here).

So U see, it is kinda crucial to have very low print cost, so I earn any money, and make purchase of wide format printer - at least justifiable, considering the price for prints I already have.

Anyway, I just wanted to see if that price of print (ink cost) can go too high, since we are going to try to break the market with better quality prints, decals (decals are very rare here), doomed stickers, no-mainstream materials (shader fibre, canvas, quality photo papers) - we are also leaning to print "arts for advertising", supporting that way our excellent design team ...

@ Randya - that type of errors happens to me all the time, so - no problem there. :{)
As for higher print quality - it is good news/bad news that it doesn't spend more color on higher print quality, if I understood You correctly. - Good news for art part, bad news for billboard quality

Though, it doesn't sound too logical to me. Doesn't "1440dpi" mean that it shoots 1440 dots per sq in? and, 360 dpi - it shoots 360 dots, so, less dots, less color spent ?????

I really need confirmation on this, from anyone that knows the answer. I should be ordering my mutoh - tomorrow, so, last chance to bail, or to except limitations in production :{)!

For Your information - 4x3 meter billboard printed on cheap blue back paper is sold for 35 euros here (around 50$), - that's around 130 sq ft of printed blue back. I have it for 29 euros (39-40$). So, if billboard print quality do not spend less color than banner print quality, I can't really print billboards at all, not even for FUN :{)?? Unless they're white with tiny letters in the middle

 

[Todd M Castle]

The 1440 dpi and 360 dpi shoots out roughly the same amount of ink, just the 360 dpi would shoot out a fatter drop than the 1440 dpi. The smaller the dot the better the resolution.

 

[jbennett]

The 1440 dpi and 360 dpi shoots out roughly the same amount of ink, just the 360 dpi would shoot out a fatter drop than the 1440 dpi. The smaller the dot the better the resolution.

So, u say it is the same amount of ink to print at 1440 that it is at 360 and even 720? Just more dots? Hmmm

 

[Todd M Castle]

From my understanding the size of the dot changes so you would have 1440 tiny dots to make up a higher resolution and slower speed. The 720 would have the same amount of ink but the drops would be twice the size losing resolution but speeding up the process a bit, but that being said I'm only a human being and could be wrong as we all can be

Variable sized dot technology

Epson's inkjet printers are capable of precise ink ejection control thanks to Micro Piezo Technology. Our unique variable sized dot technology was made possible by this advanced level of control.

Variable sized dot technology is a technology that allows ink droplets to be fired from a miniaturized nozzle with different circumferences. Using ink droplets in five sizes ensures superior print expression and contributes to greater productivity and speed in printers.

 

[jiarby]

4x3 meter billboard printed on cheap blue back paper is sold for 35 euros here (around 50$), - that's around 130 sq ft of printed blue back. I have it for 29 euros (39-40$). So, if billboard print quality do not spend less color than banner print quality, I can't really print billboards at all, not even for FUN :{)?? Unless they're white with tiny letters in the middle

Go find out what printer the guys that are doing them now use... A UV machine that cost $xxx,xxx and used bulk ink may spit them out FAST! They also buy media by the container. Maybe they keep prices low that way.

Kinda like opening hamburger stand with a skillet and a spoon and then complaining that McDonalds sells a hamburger for $1.

 

[randya]

Now, that is the math I like.:{)
However, here (Montenegro, Europe), 1 sq meter (around 11 sq ft) printed PVC vinyl for example, is sold for around 18 euros (around 25$) without montage - just the print - so, it is that FAMOUS 2.72$/sq ft :{)). , and I have it for 12euros at my supplier (but, that is considered EXTREMELY good deal here).

So U see, it is kinda crucial to have very low print cost, so I earn any money, and make purchase of wide format printer - at least justifiable, considering the price for prints I already have.

Anyway, I just wanted to see if that price of print (ink cost) can go too high, since we are going to try to break the market with better quality prints, decals (decals are very rare here), doomed stickers, no-mainstream materials (shader fibre, canvas, quality photo papers) - we are also leaning to print "arts for advertising", supporting that way our excellent design team ...

@ Randya - that type of errors happens to me all the time, so - no problem there. :{)
As for higher print quality - it is good news/bad news that it doesn't spend more color on higher print quality, if I understood You correctly. - Good news for art part, bad news for billboard quality

Though, it doesn't sound too logical to me. Doesn't "1440dpi" mean that it shoots 1440 dots per sq in? and, 360 dpi - it shoots 360 dots, so, less dots, less color spent ?????

I really need confirmation on this, from anyone that knows the answer. I should be ordering my mutoh - tomorrow, so, last chance to bail, or to except limitations in production :{)!

For Your information - 4x3 meter billboard printed on cheap blue back paper is sold for 35 euros here (around 50$), - that's around 130 sq ft of printed blue back. I have it for 29 euros (39-40$). So, if billboard print quality do not spend less color than banner print quality, I can't really print billboards at all, not even for FUN :{)?? Unless they're white with tiny letters in the middle

Bottom line is: It all depends on the profile.

The profile determines how many drops and what sizes (and colors) are printed.
And the profile is (or at least should be) written specifically for the media printed.


The 1204/1304/1604 have ONLY 1440x1440, 1440x720, 720x720 and 720x540 resolutions.

So there is no 360 modes for these machine (at least not here in the states).

They are designed as high speed (for their class), high resolution printers.

In 1440x1440 mode it only prints the small droplet size.
In most of the other modes it prints a set of small, medium and small+medium(large) drops. Variable dot.
There are a number of 'sets' of droplet sizes depending on the mode and therefore the PROFILE.

It is the PROFILE that determines ink usage for a particular image on a particular media.

If you want to optimize ink usage, you should either learn to do profiling or hire an expert to optimize your process.

 

[Stealth Ryder]

Bottom line is: It all depends on the profile.

The profile determines how many drops and what sizes (and colors) are printed.
And the profile is (or at least should be) written specifically for the media printed.


The 1204/1304/1604 have ONLY 1440x1440, 1440x720, 720x720 and 720x540 resolutions.

So there is no 360 modes for these machine (at least not here in the states).

They are designed as high speed (for their class), high resolution printers.

In 1440x1440 mode it only prints the small droplet size.
In most of the other modes it prints a set of small, media and small+medium(large) drops. Variable dot.
There are a number of 'sets' of droplet sizes depending on the mode and therefore the PROFILE.

It is the PROFILE that determines ink usage for a particular image on a particular media.

If you want to optimize ink usage, you should either learn to do profiling or hire an expert to optimize your process.

That's what I am talking about!!! Good Job Randy...

 

[messmedia]

^^^ all understood.
THANX!