Mike Tyrrell
New Member
We are a commercial printing company wanting to add sign making to our offering. I am looking at 2 machines right now Mutoh Valuejet 1638UH and Fuji's Acuity EY. any opinions.
-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Just starting out in signs
- Thread starter Mike Tyrrell
- Start date
ams
New Member
Mike, I highly suggest not going with that printer. If you want to just do a little on the sides, it's fine. But if you want to really get into the sign market, you need professional equipment such as Roland, Mimaki, HP. Not saying Mutoh is a piece of junk by any means. It all depends if you want high production, quality, ink options, cutting capable, etc. I would stay away from Fuji, the sign industry is nothing like printing shops or photo processing companies.
Danielsdzyn
New Member
60" Hp latex printer may be just what you're looking for.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
What kind of signs do you intend on doing? If it's is small yard signs and banners and stickers you may want to try outsourcing first to see if the business is there to justify a major equipment purchase and investment in labor. Big signs are nothing like the printing business, it's an entire different world.. but doing "small stuff" is an OK crossover. Outsource first to see IF YOU can draw in the business and THEN purchase.
Remember, people looking for coro signs and banner are most likely going to call a sign company first. I think business that try to "cross over" and offer products from similar industries never do well in that category. I'd suggest focusing on what your clientele knows you for and use your investment dollars, time and focus on improving and growing your main printing business. It's like a sign company adding business cards or tshirt printing...in my experience it doesnt work out. When the sign company I used to work for added that it only distracted us from what the main focus should of been. After a few attempts we did away with the screen printing equipment and left over matieral at a loss. Not saying don't try it, but try outsourceing before potentially wasting time and money.
Remember, people looking for coro signs and banner are most likely going to call a sign company first. I think business that try to "cross over" and offer products from similar industries never do well in that category. I'd suggest focusing on what your clientele knows you for and use your investment dollars, time and focus on improving and growing your main printing business. It's like a sign company adding business cards or tshirt printing...in my experience it doesnt work out. When the sign company I used to work for added that it only distracted us from what the main focus should of been. After a few attempts we did away with the screen printing equipment and left over matieral at a loss. Not saying don't try it, but try outsourceing before potentially wasting time and money.
Last edited:
Ben Camacho
New Member
Hi Mike, Like you I am fairly new to sign making. I started out making yard signs and banners and quickly realized that both are a race to the bottom. While we still sell yard signs and banners... we almost always outsource those to a trade printer.
Because my strengths are in machining and fabrication I elected to buy an HP360 largely because it can self calibrate, is easy to care for, and has a take up real. For example it is Fathers Day... I ran into the shop and started a large print job that will be waiting for me first thing Monday morning. Certainly nice that the printer can run unattended.
Big decision.. take your time!
Because my strengths are in machining and fabrication I elected to buy an HP360 largely because it can self calibrate, is easy to care for, and has a take up real. For example it is Fathers Day... I ran into the shop and started a large print job that will be waiting for me first thing Monday morning. Certainly nice that the printer can run unattended.
Big decision.. take your time!
ams
New Member
I agree with everyone, but also know that the sign industry is very different and takes years to learn. You can't say "oh this is just a sticker, I'll slap it on this and give it to the customer" there are lots of things you need to know so your signs don't fail or look horrible. But of course that is what we are here for, Questions!
Mike, please, whatever equipment you choose to buy, do some research on what real sign shops charge for their products and why. The pricing for signs does not work the same way as pricing for printed materials. You will not be doing your neighbors or or yourself any favors if you think that because banner material costs 15 cents a square foot that selling finished banners for 45 cents a square foot is making a killing because it is way more money than you make on business cards.
Mike Tyrrell
New Member
Thank you for the reply's
We have been send work out for a year now. Last month we had $3,000 worth of wide format print on our CC statement.
I should have not said sign making because it is more that we want to add wide format printing I believe there is a difference.
We do live and work in a small market my town is in the middle of Washington State. The town and the surrounding ones have a pop. of 100,000 +.
I do have some space concerns that is why the Mutoh hy bread.
I will do some research into Roland, HP and the Mimaki.
We have been send work out for a year now. Last month we had $3,000 worth of wide format print on our CC statement.
I should have not said sign making because it is more that we want to add wide format printing I believe there is a difference.
We do live and work in a small market my town is in the middle of Washington State. The town and the surrounding ones have a pop. of 100,000 +.
I do have some space concerns that is why the Mutoh hy bread.
I will do some research into Roland, HP and the Mimaki.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
The more specific you are, the better the answers will get.
Mike Tyrrell
New Member
We are looking at Banners, POP signs, small yard signs, 4x8 signs, and small run posters.
What equipment do you use?
DerbyCitySignGuy
New Member
Check out some of the hybrid printers. They're pretty good "jack of all trades" machines.
papabud
Lone Wolf
i can easily chime in on this.
i grew up working in the commercial printing industry.
one of my shops bought some used wide format equipment.
basically to do a few displays and banners. simple turn key products for existing costumers.
this was a nightmare. the work flow is totally different. the logic is different. and turn around times are different.
if your already outsourcing some of this work. i would look at keeping it that way.
but if your boss insists on bringing it in house. i can understand his logic.
i would recommend staying with hp. you wont have great color matching. but in wide format its less of an issue than regular printing.
but a latex machine will help you in a faster turnaround and a smaller learning curve. they are easier for new users to maintain and get up and running.
pair it with a decent laminator and a good cutter.
look at some of the sales for a machine for a bundle deal.
i grew up working in the commercial printing industry.
one of my shops bought some used wide format equipment.
basically to do a few displays and banners. simple turn key products for existing costumers.
this was a nightmare. the work flow is totally different. the logic is different. and turn around times are different.
if your already outsourcing some of this work. i would look at keeping it that way.
but if your boss insists on bringing it in house. i can understand his logic.
i would recommend staying with hp. you wont have great color matching. but in wide format its less of an issue than regular printing.
but a latex machine will help you in a faster turnaround and a smaller learning curve. they are easier for new users to maintain and get up and running.
pair it with a decent laminator and a good cutter.
look at some of the sales for a machine for a bundle deal.
mark galoob
New Member
we started out as a pack/ship print shop...after a few years it became very apparent that wide format had potential. in that regard we bought a mutoh 54" printer, a seal base lam 54" and a graphtec plotter 54". over the last few years we have grown this to be just as lucrative as our print business. i paid a local sign industry expert to work with me and train me for several months to get me to a point where i could work on my own. then i was able to train my employees. large format fufills a very nice role in keeping staff busy when down time happens. also many of your print customers will transition to your wide format customers...
your decision to buy a mutoh is excellent. from what i can tell, all these machines do basiclly the same thing...but mutohs...are excellent machines, easy to work with and much lower maintenance than your production printer/copier would be. make sure whatever machines you buy will have local printer techs that can work on them... the only thing you seem to be missing is you will need is a lam machine, plotter, and several hundred dollars in misc tools and supplies...dont forget these large projects need LOTS more space so you will need a very large worktable that can handle banners...we built a 16' x 4' table.
your decision to buy a mutoh is excellent. from what i can tell, all these machines do basiclly the same thing...but mutohs...are excellent machines, easy to work with and much lower maintenance than your production printer/copier would be. make sure whatever machines you buy will have local printer techs that can work on them... the only thing you seem to be missing is you will need is a lam machine, plotter, and several hundred dollars in misc tools and supplies...dont forget these large projects need LOTS more space so you will need a very large worktable that can handle banners...we built a 16' x 4' table.
In reference to personal experience only. Mutoh service sucks especially from signwarehouse. Roland service is dependent on your dealer but generally good for the most part. Mimaki is also fairly dependent on your dealer but they can be a bit choppy on fast resolutions and quick service.
We ran a fleet of Rolands and switched to Epson eco solvent machines. Look at the S40600 $10k after rebates or the S60600 and S80600. These also have the newest print heads where some of the Mutoh and Mimaki machines are running older print heads in a lot of their machines with the exception of the ricoh heads.
Epson has some of the fastest turn around time on getting service. Some of these other manufacture dealers have a sub contractor that you have to schedule to come out and they don't always have all the parts needed for the first trip fix.
Whatever you do if you are serious about your decision to move forward don't get a used machine until you know how to work on it. Most people don't realize manufactures have altered their warranties now to only cover the original buyer and not the second owner. So the "it's still under warranty" is false. If you build a solid relationship with a dealer you might find some special treatment but you can't base a business decision off hope in a numbers world.
Service is paramount next to print quality. We won't consider a latex machine as of now due to grain issues and inability to profile it. Get test prints you will see.
We ran a fleet of Rolands and switched to Epson eco solvent machines. Look at the S40600 $10k after rebates or the S60600 and S80600. These also have the newest print heads where some of the Mutoh and Mimaki machines are running older print heads in a lot of their machines with the exception of the ricoh heads.
Epson has some of the fastest turn around time on getting service. Some of these other manufacture dealers have a sub contractor that you have to schedule to come out and they don't always have all the parts needed for the first trip fix.
Whatever you do if you are serious about your decision to move forward don't get a used machine until you know how to work on it. Most people don't realize manufactures have altered their warranties now to only cover the original buyer and not the second owner. So the "it's still under warranty" is false. If you build a solid relationship with a dealer you might find some special treatment but you can't base a business decision off hope in a numbers world.
Service is paramount next to print quality. We won't consider a latex machine as of now due to grain issues and inability to profile it. Get test prints you will see.
eahicks
Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
If you did it right, that $3000 you spent on signs hopefully netted you at least $6000, if not more.
Mike, I too started out as just print on paper but had to adapt. We started with a plotter and grew into a printer/cutter. Since we have added manual shirt presses, then auto shirt presses and finally a Mimaki flatbed. I know where you are cause I have been there. Keep a couple of things in mind when making your decision. One be prepared to spend a bit more money, the good stuff is worth it. More production and less headache. Two, is service. Maybe that should be number one. Make sure you have good service that is very available.
Blaster
Adam B.
Hey Mike, We just started out not too long ago and we love our HP360. Latex has worked well for us.
Mike, the first thing you should focus on is finding a designer or production person that has worked in a small sign shop. We recently hired a graphic designer from a print shop that specialized in offset printing and it is a completely different mind frame. Whoever said it ^ was 100% correct when they said that the types of signs/banners you are looking to get into are a race to the bottom.
I’ve been in this business for 4+ years now. I have gone through a Roland and now have an HP latex 360. I’m on my 2nd plotter and 2nd laminator.. we started using one of the online trade sites about a year ago for all the banners and Coro signs that we get. Our sales are up and my guys aren’t tied up with the busy work. Keep in mind that if you decide to go in-house for banners & Coro, you will need to invest in grommets, grommet machine, banner hemming tape, have a resource for coroplast and h-stakes and also invest the time to quote the price shoppers for every lawn company, real estate agent and apartment complex in town, who will likely just find the cheapest price in town.
I’ve been in this business for 4+ years now. I have gone through a Roland and now have an HP latex 360. I’m on my 2nd plotter and 2nd laminator.. we started using one of the online trade sites about a year ago for all the banners and Coro signs that we get. Our sales are up and my guys aren’t tied up with the busy work. Keep in mind that if you decide to go in-house for banners & Coro, you will need to invest in grommets, grommet machine, banner hemming tape, have a resource for coroplast and h-stakes and also invest the time to quote the price shoppers for every lawn company, real estate agent and apartment complex in town, who will likely just find the cheapest price in town.