Level or Parallel for parking garage signage?

[Hendersign]

After I was halfway through the over-heads, I went out to the truck for something and it wasn’t until I walked back into the garage and saw the signs from a distance that I panicked. Of course the installation instructions had me cut the cables to length after checking for height. “Oh No”, I thought. “Now I’ve got no adjustment left and the signs are off…..but nooo, they were just as level as you could ask for”. (It would have been a truly miserable couple of minutes if they had been stud mt.).


In the moments after I realized that the Double-T stems ran down hill for drainage, I remembered my first sign installation job where the Architectural firm had turned four of it’s junior architects loose to inspect each of the 2500 rooms for defects of any sort including signage. One young woman in particular dinged several of my signs. When I protested, explaining that I had checked them all with a level, she told me “I’m a trained architect and don’t need a level, I’ve got eyes”, “Fix your signs”. Although I nearly bit my tongue through, I went back and checked each of the room id signs that she had tagged. In each case the door jamb was slightly off plumb and what she was seeing was a sign with a plumb vertical edge next to the door casing (which everyone knows is always plumb), but wasn’t . I "fixed" the signs. A very good lesson that served me well until I went for the parking garage.


After catching the garage sign level/parallel issue, I did approach the GC’s Superintendent and was told to continue hanging level and that if the end user wanted them changed they’d pay me to come back and do it. (Frankly that didn’t help much as I looked at the signs in my rear view mirror upon departure.)


Moze’ mention of dimensional letters installed between mortar lines that are not level is a great example of when parallel trumps level.


Again, thanks for the great input. You never truly appreciate these type of boards until you are on the receiving end of the cumulative wisdom and experience of fellow professionals who care enough about their vocation to engage.​

 

[shoresigns]

Trust your eyeballs, not your level. A sign should almost always be parallel to fit with its surroundings. In extreme situations where we have two less-than-ideal options, then we check with the client.

 

[FS-Keith]

you do not use the level in these instances.

 

[Moze]

This thread is hilarious...

 

[Gino]

You ain't just whistling Dixie...............................

 

[player]

Always put one top center bolt in, then tape the sign in place. Get a look at it. Then bolt it all in.

 

[striper14]

You ain't just whistling Dixie...............................

2nd one looks good except for spelling..unless of course its a new fast food joint....:Big Laugh

 

[FS-Keith]

Maybe it's me, but I think you should follow the lines of the surrounding area and what looks best to the masses. Afterall, we are the professionals, not them. They don't know any better and if we , as sign professionals, let something like this up to the customer..... your work looks odd. Why ?? Because they generally don't know any better. You can't use justifications of a truck goes uphill and downhill. You can't say the building isn't level. You are supposed to know what to do. If you don't, well..... then you're not a professional, letting your work up to them. You can let a maitre'd, pick a good wine or a vegetable stand person plug a watermelon for ya, cause that's part of their job. If you disagree, then say so and give your opinion, but unless you really know...... the professional should be doing his/her job.

agreed, the picture on the right is how it should be done. the left pic looks bad. Of course its up to he customer to dictate how they want it but its our job as professionals to use our experience to give our opinion if it is asked.

 

[Moze]

So at what point is it "right" or "wrong" to install a sign so that it follows the angle of the structure it's on? 4° is right, 5° is wrong?

Some are saying definitively in this thread "this is how it should or shouldn't be done" as if there are rules written somewhere on the matter. Opinions even differ between the professionals posting in this thread, which means when it's all said and done - the decision shouldn't be made based on our opinion, but that of the customer. They're the one cutting the check.

 

[Marlene]

this same thing happens with van and truck letters. do you follow the lines or level? I use the lines of the truck and the closest bottom lines for a van as it makes it look like it fits the vehicle even if the letters are level to ground

 

[Jester1167]

My pet peeve is that these decision should be made in the sales/design phase of the project. The installer should receive the proofs used to sell the job showing the location and orientation of the sign or signs. I don't produce anything so I end up having 2 masters, the company who hired me and the customer. That's extra time and phone calls trying to get everyone on the same page so I get paid.

I was taught to position the sign and then stand back and take a look. Is it centered side to side, slightly above horizontal center so the sign doesn't look heavy, and level? Typically I follow a strong horizontal that "looks" level or close to level. They say the eye never lies but the hard part is in the grey area where the strong horizontal or vertical doesn't really look level but it's close. Then your brain gets involved and you have to decide whether to follow the strong horizontal, split the difference, or level it? If you are having trouble deciding, do what you think is right then do something else for a few minutes. When you come back your eye will tell you if its right or wrong. When in doubt and know one for appoval, level is your best defensible option.

The only time I have found that the eyeball trick doesn't work is when you have a block of vinyl letters where the mask is hand trimmed crooked. I hate that because your eye jumps back and forth between the lettering and the crooked mask trying to figure out what is level. When that happens your only options are to use a tape measure or level if you can't trim the mask even.

 

[Hendersign]

Thank you again to all who provided such excellent input, especially to Moze for his pictures and examples. Taking his idea, I think I'm going to put together a digital flyer of some sort illustrating the difference between "parallel and level" with regards to signage of this type and send it out to the on-site "project manager" along with my standard list of pre-install questions. That way the GC/Architect/Customer can make an informed decision ahead of time and provide a documented response.

As it turns out, I have to go back to the parking garage for some additional signage and to install some bang bars so I'll be able to get some actual pictures. Then I can either stage some of the longer signs in both level and parallel orientations, or else photo-shop them for future reference.

When installing long signs on soffits and bulkheads the professional installer would usually make the call and do what looks best. This whole parking garage situation was new for me and it was surprisingly difficult to get definitive answers from anybody, even the manufacturer. The result of the discussion on this board however, will be a great tool that will help future installs to go much smoother and assign definite responsibility to those writing the checks.

 

[Andy D]

Interesting question, I have never installed these types of signs, so this has never been an issue.
It seems like it would follow other type of sign rules, where you split the difference...
Such as, when you're centering up a business's name with a registration mark, you make distance
on the left of the name and the distance to the center of the registration mark the same, that way it looks centered.