Light Pole Banner Questions

[NateF]

So we got our first wide format printer (a VS-540i) a little over a month ago, and we've been slowly but surely learning lots of cool new things. Printing in-house is great - we have much better control over quality and turnaround, we're able to easily offer a wider range of media to our customers, and (best of all) we make more money.

I'm getting ready to tackle our first light pole banner order and have a ton of questions. I've spent a couple hours already digging through the forum. I found a bunch of great threads on how to calculate circumference of pole pockets, but I still have a few unanswered questions:

MEDIA - It seems like 18 oz material is the standard product used. My question - is mesh material ever acceptable to use for light pole banners? I have some mesh banner samples from UltraFlex - though the media they sent me came without a liner, even though the label on the roll says "mesh banner with liner".

Double-sided - It looks like I can print double-sided if I go with the 18oz banner. I've seen a few threads that mention pricking small holes at the corners of the first-side print to aid in second-side alignment, and others that mention the "center on media" command being helpful. Sounds like a minor pain, but still much easier than trying to hem two banners together.

IF I use the mesh banner - I think it's intended to be a 1-sided media. Can I get away with printing on the second side as well? Hemming two mesh banners back-to-back to make a 2-sided banner would seem to defeat the purpose of mesh in the first place.

Putting everything together - We hem our regular banners with regular banner tape. I've seen heavier tapes for sale - VHB tape, etc. Should I be using something heavier than standard banner tape for the pole pockets? Also, is it best to leave an extra 4-5" of mirrored image at the end of the print to make the pockets? Or is there a better way? I know some suppliers print the image in the middle and leave blank white media at the ends to make the pockets, but the finished banners look so much better with the image running all the way to the top and bottom.

I've also seen that adding a grommet on each end of the pole pocket seam can help hold the seam together. Seems like a good idea to me...

 

[NateF]

Bump...anybody???

 

[GAC05]

I'll give it a shot.

Mesh is ok if your layout does not have a lot of detail in it. The image is a little washed out by the voids in the mesh.
Double sided mesh does not work. Your ink will bleed through the holes in mesh and be visible on the backside so the second side will blend with the first and make it hard to read.

Double sided printing can work and is not that hard to do. It seems to work best with smaller banners. We do them for interior poster sized window hangers on smooth 15oz lay flat material.
Larger banners can have issues when printing the second side and the wasted time and material is no fun for a smaller shop. We did a dozen 4'x12's and had one fail on the second side.
You have to disable your media sensor so it does not read any of the dark printed areas on the down side and throw up an end of media error.
We have less drama printing 2 images and mounting them back to back/side to side.

Most of the ones we do are smaller than 24" wide so we can print them side by side on 54" material. We use the folded edge on the outside and a one inch fold on the pole side. This sets the grommets through 4 layers of banner. End to end works too with enough material left between them to make the pocket.
No tape exterior banners here. Might be the sun & wind or the type of tape we get but I've seen enough fail to skip it. Week end sale or birthday banners get tape.
We use HH66 pvc glue. The glue burns down through the pvc layers into the scrim and melts it all together and gets stronger the longer it sets. Tape just sits on the top surface of the material.
If they are going to be up for an extended length of time or are oversized we stitch the pole pocket seams.
Setting a grommet on each end of the pocket seams is standard locks the seam and gives you a tie off at each end of the pole bracket.
We overprint the design if it is full color, full bleed so the pole pockets match.
We do leave the backside of the seam folds unprinted to set the glue.

That's how we do it here.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[NateF]

Wayne,

Thanks for an excellent, thorough answer. I'm going to have to read through a couple times to make sure everything makes since, but I appreciate your taking the time to help

 

[NateF]

We use HH66 pvc glue. The glue burns down through the pvc layers into the scrim and melts it all together and gets stronger the longer it sets. Tape just sits on the top surface of the material.
If they are going to be up for an extended length of time or are oversized we stitch the pole pocket seams.
Setting a grommet on each end of the pocket seams is standard locks the seam and gives you a tie off at each end of the pole bracket.
We overprint the design if it is full color, full bleed so the pole pockets match.
We do leave the backside of the seam folds unprinted to set the glue.

That's how we do it here.

wayne k
guam usa

Wayne, we got some of the HH66 glue to try. We tested first on raw unprinted vinyl (we're using Ultraflex 18oz pole banner). It held great - practically impossible to tear apart by hand even before we added a grommet at each end. We then printed a couple test pieces on our Roland VS-540i. That didn't go so well. Once the glue is on top of the ink it doesn't seem to bite nearly as well and was easy to tear back apart by hand. I tried a few different methods - heavy glue, light glue, applying when still slightly damp, applying when completely dry, etc. I seemed to get the best results (though they still weren't great) by "scrubbing" the glue into the vinyl with the application brush from the can. I could see it actually dissolving and lifting the ink, and once the pocket was assembled the grip on this test was definitely better.

Have you experienced this? Any recommendations? I know that I could leave two white strips on the design where the glue will go, but that could get to be a headache on it's own.

 

[WYLDGFI]

Hey Nate...typically the lightest we would use would be 15oz with 18oz being more the norm. We have welding capabilities for hems and pocketing. That said, we typically fold over the edges on the banners first and then sew the hemmed sides and create the pockets as well with sewing.
We have a large HP printer with the ability to do double sided same pc of material. That works best with the 18oz LTX or pole banner pro. Depending on the image, we can do either same pc of material or as a head to head with fold over. I like to make the banners more bulletproof.
If you have the ability to, get a heavy duty sewing machine. HH66 is good...but its only bonding the PVC layer and not really getting the scrim fibers together like putting thread through the banner.
Grommets are not used for strength....usually just for tie downs to prevent a banner from slipping off the poles just in case wind kicks up...etc. The HH66 is good if you're doing 2 banners back to back and need to seal up the wind slits.

 

[GAC05]

Nate,
the ink does effect the bond with the HH66. My note on leaving the seams unprinted was not very clear.
We found this out with a parking lot set of pole banners that had half done with a solid orange background and the second half done reversed out (orange logo on a white background) hung side by side on the same poles. After some heavy weather the white ones were fine and all of the orange failed.
We have not had any failures since then.
When we have to panel banners larger than we can print in one piece we always use the HH66 on the center seams & either glue or sew the edge hems depending on what it will be used for.
Bringing sewing in-house is not too difficult if you are not dealing with a high volume of banners.
Takes a little practice and some hand holding if you have never done it before.
Works best if you have the space to set up a sewing table long enough to feed the banners back and forth on their long sides. We use our layout table with the sewing machine in a cut out notch on one side.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[NateF]

Wyld - thanks for the info. Sewing would be nice, but I just don't have the space for it right now. I was doing good to fit a 54" roland in the shop along with a sign table.

Wayne - I don't know how I missed the note at the end of your post about leaving the seams unprinted. I see it now... I think that's the route that I'll take for now. With the glue on a white strip of vinyl and a grommet at each end as extra insurance, I think our pole banners will hold up well. Thank you again for the helpful info.

 

[GAC05]

Wyld - thanks for the info. Sewing would be nice, but I just don't have the space for it right now. I was doing good to fit a 54" roland in the shop along with a sign table.

Wayne - I don't know how I missed the note at the end of your post about leaving the seams unprinted. I see it now... I think that's the route that I'll take for now. With the glue on a white strip of vinyl and a grommet at each end as extra insurance, I think our pole banners will hold up well. Thank you again for the helpful info.

You'll be fine with the glue.
Tip to speed up working with the glue:
Don't brush it out of the can with the applicator it comes with - takes forever and is never smooth.
Get a squeeze bottle and a plastic spreader.
We use those hard yellow blocks and cut down one edge to the size needed for the glue seams.
Squirt it out in a zig-zag pattern (like mustard on a hotdog) a few feet long and then quickly use the block to spread out to a nice even coat - it's fast and you will end up using less glue with better coverage.
Just make sure the squeeze bottle will not react to the glue. An empty cleaning fluid bottle from your printer maintenance kit or one of those smaller power steering fluid bottles from the gas station will do.

wayne k
guam usa