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Looking to purchase new setup
- Thread starter Vinh1219
- Start date
ChicagoGraphics
New Member
Have you ever done a vehicle wrap before?
BigfishDM
Merchant Member
HP Latex is an excellent choice for doing vehicle wraps, not out gassing either. Print, Laminate and install all same day when you have latex. You can't really do that with eco-solvent machines.
I would stay far away from latex machines. As a wrap installer, I have been given prints form latex many times and almost every time there is some sort of issue. Color changes from beginning of the roll to the end, registration being off over a 15' span by over an inch or two, etc. From what I hear, it has to do with the extreme heat needed to operate and nozzle size actually changes during long prints and creates different colors. They suck down a ton of power as well so you need to have 2 separate 220v outlets available for 1 machine. I am absolutely not an expert in latex so I recommend doing your research but those are the issues I see and hear a lot of complaints about.
There are a few questions I would have for you. Is this your first printer and your first laminator? How many wraps per week do you plan on printing on it? What is your overall budget? Will you be laminating calendared materials along with the cast films? Do you have any space or electrical restrictions?
When I opened my shop 2 years ago, I started with a Roland RF-640, GX640 cutter and cheap GFP cold laminator. They can all be had for 20k total new. I have since upgraded all of them but I put out well over a million dollars of work from them. In fact, I still have them in pristine condition running today with the exception of the laminator (didn't need 2).
There are a few questions I would have for you. Is this your first printer and your first laminator? How many wraps per week do you plan on printing on it? What is your overall budget? Will you be laminating calendared materials along with the cast films? Do you have any space or electrical restrictions?
When I opened my shop 2 years ago, I started with a Roland RF-640, GX640 cutter and cheap GFP cold laminator. They can all be had for 20k total new. I have since upgraded all of them but I put out well over a million dollars of work from them. In fact, I still have them in pristine condition running today with the exception of the laminator (didn't need 2).
BigfishDM
Merchant Member
The biggest wrap shops in this field are running latex. Maybe you had issues with people who didn't know how to run their machine properly or were not trained properly by the people they purchased it from. They DO NOT consume a lot of power, the difference is not even debatable, that's how little it is. Of course there have been some lemons out there but I think as a whole, Latex has dominated the market, especially for vehicle wraps.
MikePro
New Member
crushing it, with my latex printer. any issues, may occur with shops still grinding out product on 1st gen machines now 7 -10 years after their introduction.
edited to add: HP26500. LOVE MY LATEX PRINTER! Can't wait to upgrade to the 300+ series in the near future. Ran a solvent mimaki jv3 for nearly 10years before finally making the switch, and have not missed that solvent-smelling office, or "need" to outgass prints before lamination. market yourself as "going green", and get on the latex train.
edited to add: HP26500. LOVE MY LATEX PRINTER! Can't wait to upgrade to the 300+ series in the near future. Ran a solvent mimaki jv3 for nearly 10years before finally making the switch, and have not missed that solvent-smelling office, or "need" to outgass prints before lamination. market yourself as "going green", and get on the latex train.
Not sure if you were referring to me but I was only giving opinions from the install side of the machine. It's an issue I hear from guys all across the country as well. I also made it clear that I'm not an expert in the machine and recommended outside research. I'm not trying to start trouble, just want to make sure what I said doesn't sound like a bash on a product because that was not my intention.
MikePro
New Member
no, you're giving opinions about product supplied from 3rd parties without actually having any information about what they are providing you, how they produced it, what machine, etc. they call it hearsay for a reason: just because you heard someone say it ...does not make it fact.
As a printer & installer, for nearly 20yrs (solvent since 2000, and latex since 2011), I will counter your comment with one of my own, from experience: your issue with latex machines, seem to come from taking the word of an operator making excuses for their errors.
...all the issues you listed can come with any and every type of printer (solvent/eco/latex/etc) when the machine isn't profiled, the media feed compensation isn't adjusted, the RIP operator is not flipping every-other-tile for color alignment, and/or the laminator is running materials under high tension.
...aaaand i'm quick to be a dick, sometimes, on the interwebz. my bad
back to the OP, however, go see all the printers in operation at a tradeshow sometime before taking the plunge AND whichever printer you decide-on, make sure you have a supplier within close proximity so that you're not waiting 2-3+days for replacement inks/parts to show up in the mail. Highly recommended HP Latex for its ease-of-use, but Roland/Mimaki/Mutoh/Epson are all reliable names as well. Solvent inks are also worth consideration, but not a fan of ecosolvent inks whatsoever due to the limited selection of materials it is able to print on.
As a printer & installer, for nearly 20yrs (solvent since 2000, and latex since 2011), I will counter your comment with one of my own, from experience: your issue with latex machines, seem to come from taking the word of an operator making excuses for their errors.
...all the issues you listed can come with any and every type of printer (solvent/eco/latex/etc) when the machine isn't profiled, the media feed compensation isn't adjusted, the RIP operator is not flipping every-other-tile for color alignment, and/or the laminator is running materials under high tension.
...aaaand i'm quick to be a dick, sometimes, on the interwebz. my bad
back to the OP, however, go see all the printers in operation at a tradeshow sometime before taking the plunge AND whichever printer you decide-on, make sure you have a supplier within close proximity so that you're not waiting 2-3+days for replacement inks/parts to show up in the mail. Highly recommended HP Latex for its ease-of-use, but Roland/Mimaki/Mutoh/Epson are all reliable names as well. Solvent inks are also worth consideration, but not a fan of ecosolvent inks whatsoever due to the limited selection of materials it is able to print on.
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Kentucky Wraps
Kentucky Wraps
As a contracted installer...you probably are getting a majority of your prints from a few sources.
Over an inch or two off on registration is probably because it was calendered vinyl. Think about the backer...it it shrunk that much in the curing process of the latex printer, did the backer shrink with it?
Do actual Latex printer owners complain about the 2 outlets (even though they knew about them when buying it) or are you just repeating what the EcoSolvent marketing videos are putting out there as a con to latex? Because I have yet to hear of a Latex Printer Owner complain about the power usage or the fact that it takes 2 dedicated outlets.
I do however hear of Solvent Printer owners complaining about the outgasing and odors from those solvent inks...I know because I was one of them.
I've printed and installed several latex prints and have never had any of those issues. In fact the installation of the latex I found better especially when working with prints that have a lot of darker colors and the darker ink in solvent/eco-solvent bits into the film and slightly changes it's properties. It sound to me like the production person is more likely the culprit by using incorrect setting on the printer or rip. I just printed full truck wrap, trailer and snowmachine wrap on one go. The color and registration was perfect all the way through.
While I also have heard that the color can shift on long runs, that was older machines and older generations of ink that HP has found a work around/fix with a firmware update. The issue was that the Magenta head was getting to hot when running over long periods of time.
As far a having to use 220,,, it's not that big of a deal. We bought two HP 570's and had an electrician come in and set it up. It took a few hours and that was it.
They don't suck down any more power than solvent/eco-solvent on average. To be honest solvent/eco-solvent might actually use more power as the latex don't need to cycle ink through the machine every few hours to make sure it doesn't harden in the lines. Oh and with latex you don't have to deal with those pesky toxic fumes that you 'just get used to'
Is this something that you saw and thought I could do that or something you've been doing for someone else and decided to embark onto you own? Either way I would maybe look at doing just design maybe some cut vinyl in house and outsourcing the printing to a third party till you can determine that this is a business that you can succeed at. Purchasing or leasing a large format printer can be a big step and if your not sure what your getting into or where your going to make your money why take the additional risk. You might do a few wraps a year but end up making a killing in banners or magnets or posters. The third party will help keep your overhead down which will allow you to spend those resources elsewhere.
If you are determined to buy a machine there are many variables to look at. Size, speed, colors, type, upfront maintenance cost , hidden maintenance cost, consumables, local support, end use results, material types, etc.
Each type of machine and each manufacture has it pro's and con's. Everyone on here will give you their two cents, you will just have to do some research, get samples, see if you can test some out at a trade show or dealer to find the right machine for you.
My two cents would be HP latex.
I would like to thanks for all the comments and advice. As to some of your questions, I’ve been wrapping since 2012. I always outsource my prints but i think now is the time to plunge for my own setup, I’ve been doing a lot of fleet trucks recently and steady on my usual 5-10 wraps a month not including the fleets that i get. Company i use in Cali for my prints has been giving me headache the past couple months. I think I’m pretty steady with my workflow so keeping the printer running shouldn’t be an issue. I will go to one of the trade show to get more knowledge of the printers before i decide. Thanks