Need new flatbed - Advice please (NOT HP...)

[MarkH42]

We purchased an HP FB550 in December of 2018, so it is just over 2 years old. It has been a bit of a lemon. We have had thermistor issues, encoder strip issues, but the final straw was an ACM headstrike we had last week. It was our fault (damaged leading edge on ACM) and it lead to the head dragging across the ACM, which seemingly ruined 6 or so heads. It is going to cost us $16,000+ to have them replaced by HP ($6,000 for labor and travel time) and they are taking their sweet time getting the ball rolling. (For anyone wondering how hard we worked to get the existing heads back, we cleaned them, soaked them overnight from the bottom with lint free cloth soaked in head flush, emptied the heads, filled them 2/3 full with head flush, ran 20+ purges, did an automatic jet nozzle mapping, ran countless jet replacement prints, etc., so if there are other tips and tricks that might help cut our losses, I'm all ears!!!)

So, I spent roughly $90K on this machine a little over two years ago. We like our two HP latex roll to roll printers, but this flatbed has been a huge disappointment. I am considering replacing this one in a few months with another brand, but I don't know anything about the other manufacturers and their machines. We primarily do ACM and coroplast, but we also print on some thin .020 and .040 rigid polystyrene. What recommendations do you have for a really dependable flatbed? It doesn't have to be a speed demon, but it also can't be too slow. Any recommendations and advice are greatly appreciated!

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

We love our Vanguard, they have an entry-level model the vr48 which is substantially better quality wise than the HP and about twice as fast

 

[Pauly]

One thing people don't realise when it comes to flatbed is bed size.
They come in all sorts of sizes.
The best size for a small one is 1200mm x 2440mm. (4'x8') so you can print one full board.
Now if you get a bigger one, say 3m or 3.2m or something like that. make sure it's at least 2.4m wide so you can have 2 full boards on it.
Otherwise it's actually useless as if you have a 2m x 3.2m machine, you don't gain anything from it unless you print media larger than a full board but you can only fit 1 board on it.
Machines like the Oce/canon Arizona (and probably others) come in either 1.2m x 2.5m which you can fit a standard board on it. or they come 2.5x3m so you can actually fit 2 standard boards on it in tandem. stuff like that increases productivity as you can load a board while the other is printing.

Printing speed doesn't matter as such when there's a minute or so changing over boards.

 

[Mochistlan]

We purchased an HP FB550 in December of 2018, so it is just over 2 years old. It has been a bit of a lemon. We have had thermistor issues, encoder strip issues, but the final straw was an ACM headstrike we had last week. It was our fault (damaged leading edge on ACM) and it lead to the head dragging across the ACM, which seemingly ruined 6 or so heads. It is going to cost us $16,000+ to have them replaced by HP ($6,000 for labor and travel time) and they are taking their sweet time getting the ball rolling. (For anyone wondering how hard we worked to get the existing heads back, we cleaned them, soaked them overnight from the bottom with lint free cloth soaked in head flush, emptied the heads, filled them 2/3 full with head flush, ran 20+ purges, did an automatic jet nozzle mapping, ran countless jet replacement prints, etc., so if there are other tips and tricks that might help cut our losses, I'm all ears!!!)

So, I spent roughly $90K on this machine a little over two years ago. We like our two HP latex roll to roll printers, but this flatbed has been a huge disappointment. I am considering replacing this one in a few months with another brand, but I don't know anything about the other manufacturers and their machines. We primarily do ACM and coroplast, but we also print on some thin .020 and .040 rigid polystyrene. What recommendations do you have for a really dependable flatbed? It doesn't have to be a speed demon, but it also can't be too slow. Any recommendations and advice are greatly appreciated!

 

[iPrintStuff]

If we ever get a flatbed it’ll likely be an Arizona due to our relationship with canon; I can guarantee you’ll find quicker machines for the same price point but the service we get from canon generally is immaculate. If we put a call In for the Colorado In the morning there’s an engineer there that day. Late morning/afternoon and they’re in the next day.

Whoever you go with. Just make sure when you have a 16k head strike, you get guys that will endeavour to get you up and running as soon as possible.

 

[robibilic]

We have Mimaki JFX 500. There is a sensor that prevents a head strike. Our setup is CMYK + White + Clear. We can set up clear to be matt or gloss for any job.

 

[rjssigns]

I run a Mimaki JFX 200 in the print lab. Not a speed demon by any means but it prints beautifully. Getting new heads in June after two years of hard use.

 

[WYLDGFI]

We have AGFA. Nice printer with LED lamps.

 

[FatCat]

Have been very pleased with our Vanguard VKM-600, it's their mid-level machine. We opted for a 2nd row of heads, it prints very nice and is quick too.

 

[Grizzly]

Here are a few flatbeds to take a look at: Agfa Mira, Anapurna Series Hybrid Printers, Digitech, Vanguard, Canon/Oce Arizona (Not my favorite machine though. Had one for 2 years and got rid of it. Replaced with an AGFA Titan and will never look back or get another Canon.) None of these are going to be budget flatbeds though like your 550. These are all the next step up.

 

[nate]

I've had several flatbed printers-- The best one for entry level (7 boards a minute) is still my CET Q5, 5'x 10' bed with Ricoh Gen 5 heads. It's at least six or seven years old and continues to hum like the day it showed up.

 

[Boudica]

We purchased an HP FB550 in December of 2018, so it is just over 2 years old. It has been a bit of a lemon. We have had thermistor issues, encoder strip issues, but the final straw was an ACM headstrike we had last week. It was our fault (damaged leading edge on ACM) and it lead to the head dragging across the ACM, which seemingly ruined 6 or so heads. It is going to cost us $16,000+ to have them replaced by HP ($6,000 for labor and travel time) and they are taking their sweet time getting the ball rolling. (For anyone wondering how hard we worked to get the existing heads back, we cleaned them, soaked them overnight from the bottom with lint free cloth soaked in head flush, emptied the heads, filled them 2/3 full with head flush, ran 20+ purges, did an automatic jet nozzle mapping, ran countless jet replacement prints, etc., so if there are other tips and tricks that might help cut our losses, I'm all ears!!!)

So, I spent roughly $90K on this machine a little over two years ago. We like our two HP latex roll to roll printers, but this flatbed has been a huge disappointment. I am considering replacing this one in a few months with another brand, but I don't know anything about the other manufacturers and their machines. We primarily do ACM and coroplast, but we also print on some thin .020 and .040 rigid polystyrene. What recommendations do you have for a really dependable flatbed? It doesn't have to be a speed demon, but it also can't be too slow. Any recommendations and advice are greatly appreciated!

We have this same machine, along with the same heart-aches. You forgot to mention their batches of "under performing" ink.
So, my boss has been fed up with this machine for quite some time. We need it, it's a work horse, but we are replacing it with an Agfa Anapurna H2500 I. This should be happening in the next 2-3 months. I'm excited.
Good luck with your quest and decision

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I've had several flatbed printers-- The best one for entry level (7 boards a minute) is still my CET Q5, 5'x 10' bed with Ricoh Gen 5 heads. It's at least six or seven years old and continues to hum like the day it showed up.

Your Q5 is 7 boards a minute!?

 

[Grizzly]

Your Q5 is 7 boards a minute!?

I think he meant 7 boards an hour. Which would make sense if there was one row of Ricoh Gen 5 heads.

I think the only machine that could print that fast is the Nozomi. And that would be slow. That thing will do a board every few seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FireSprint.com]

Vanguard or Digitech should be on your list.

If you want to get really good techs out next day, you need a Durst.... Which is a whole different level.

You should also contact your insurance company. Our business policy covers accidental damage like running a forklift into the side of the printer, or running the heads over some acm. It's an accident jsut like anything else. It's worth the ask.

 

[WYLDGFI]

We have this same machine, along with the same heart-aches. You forgot to mention their batches of "under performing" ink.
So, my boss has been fed up with this machine for quite some time. We need it, it's a work horse, but we are replacing it with an Agfa Anapurna H2500 I. This should be happening in the next 2-3 months. I'm excited.
Good luck with your quest and decision

Youre going to be really happy with the 2500i. We have one of those and its a workhorse! Have had some issues here and there...but nothing crazy.

 

[nate]

Your Q5 is 7 boards a minute!?

Of course!!! Best investment ever. Seriously though this is a good upper entry level machine. It is a rebadged Handtop out of China. It is the second flatbed I purchased several years ago and it has been a champ.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I

Of course!!! Best investment ever. Seriously though this is a good upper entry level machine. It is a rebadged Handtop out of China. It is the second flatbed I purchased several years ago and it has been a champ.

I figured it was per hour... I hear the original CETs, great. Just met a lot of recent customers who weren't as happy.

 

[signheremd]

We've got a Fluid Color R84F Turbo with Ricoh Gen 6 heads and LED UV lights - fast accurate, reliable, affordable. It is another rebranded Handtop, though Fluid Color has beefed up some sections. (They started in business rebuilding flatbed printers, so know what wears...) Inks are American and formulated for performance. Our last printer was a CET. It had Ricoh heads, which lasted for 6 or 7 years. We did have some issues with the old printer, not the least was getting CET Inks toward the end...

Just remember on all of these UV printers, humidity and static must both be managed for optimal printing. Staticide, Plastic Boost (SOLV1000), and denatured alcohol (works better with current inks than isopropyl) all help to get clean substrate and the best bonds possible.

And service on the Fluid Color is very good. It comes with a camera so you can show them the issue live.

 

[Brando]

Tha

Have been very pleased with our Vanguard VKM-600, it's their mid-level machine. We opted for a 2nd row of heads, it prints very nice and is quick too.

this is the same configuration we have. We got it in August of last year and I have had nothing but problems with the heads and the software and unprofessional tech support. I’m really surprised you like the machine.