newbie needs small text capability--plotter?

[petesign]

I was kind of thinking you should go out and get a few more customers .. that way you could do your own production. I can't imagine trying to do anything on a professional level if I had to sub out all of my production.. I think I would be better off just working for someone else at that point.

You are doing your clients a disservice by not being able to handle their work in house. I'm not saying you need a printer, but a sign shop without a plotter sounds insane to me. Sounds like you are an install shop. Sure, I sub out some big jobs I cant handle like Gemini letters, who doesn't .. but cut vinyl?

Here's an idea, go to all of the other shops you sub things out to, and offer your services as a salesperson/installer for them, then they can fire all of their hourly employees and pay you as an independent contractor, not having to match taxes, provide vacation days or insurance.... isn't that what you are basically doing now?

 

[signmeup]

1/4" wide is the smallest and hardest one we've needed for these clients.

A 1/4" wide Times roman lower case i is pretty easy for most any plotter to cut. A 1/4" high Times Roman lower case i is a bit tougher.

 

[uranium]

Old Paint:
We aren't talking about a customer that owns a big pizza joint or something. OK, our biggest customer has provided steady jobs for 15 years (of which I've been involved for the last 3). They have never questioned a price, never asked us to stay till 11pm., never balked at a bill for last minute changes, pays any and all incidental expenses (like $100+ in parking fees on a multi-day job), and provide about the cushiest place to work that you can find.

All they ask is that when something has to be changed, that we do it if we can (i.e. "can these changes be made and installed by tomorrow at noon if at all possible?") If not, they won't blame us but will bring in someone else for that task if we can't do it and they'll pay a grand for 2 sq. feet of cut Oracal if there's no other way. And they'll still come back to us....until the day that they don't because someone way at the top of the totem pole notices the absence of a graphic but didn't get the memo as to why it's not there, and happens to have a raquetball partner that works at YesCo.

Some clients are simply better than others. If I do an install for these guys I can take a train downtown with a tiny bag of tools and a 2-foot level. When I leave 3 hours later I'm up $200 bucks. I don't even need to bring a ladder. Seems to me that drawing a line in the sand with a client like that when there's no fight to begin with is just silly. In fact, I soooo want to make 'em happy that I'm willing to learn the plotter side of things and stay up real late one or two nights a month when necessary.

And our other 2 big clients are like that too (pretty much).

Petesign:
Good points, but we're not a sign shop. We install vinyl....the easy stuff...it's a dream job.

It's a hard day if we have to bring our own ladder. You are right that we're doing our clients a disservice not being able to do their work in-house, but I want to find the happy medium between snatching all our business back from the guys that cut our vinyl now (nice guys) and leaving our clients high and dry when our vinyl cutters can't get the job done.

 

[signmeup]

I give up.

 

[uranium]

i give up too.

 

[OldPaint]

you want the dream job without any INVESTMENT in the future income you seem to make so easily! this is the only problem ya got. BUY A PROFESSIONAL PLOTTER........or buy a chinese junk one...............your choice.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Don't give up.

You said it yourself and when I think back... "stay up real late one or two nights a month when necessary." was one of the first things I did. It's really really hard, but surely possible.

 

[Mainframe]

Uranuim, if you are still out there, I have some advise for you, Go buy yourself a nice Graphtec plotter & cut ALL the vinyl you install in house. You have a Graphics/vinyl business, (& a successful one at that). This is the next natural step for you & in my opinion would benefit your customer(s), you are already doing the hard part, (selling the job, installing the job, pleasing the customer, & getting the money), if you get yourself a nice cutter, (check with sign warehouse) You will be able to cut all the vinyl & bring extras to the job in case you mess it up, you will be able to control design set up, weeding & all the production quality issues you may have. I am sure the guys that produce for you are fabulous, but your not a toy maker trying to cut out the vinyl guy, you are a vinyl guy & need to stop being afraid of the production side & take the bull by the horns. You are a perfect candidate for a nice new plotter, Get one, stay up late & play with it, do searches on here & learn, stop being so nice. It's not cutting someone's throat to cut YOUR own vinyl you sell. Just go for it! & keep the customer happy.

 

[signmeup]

One last try. How big is the lettering you want to cut? (and don't say "1/4" wide".) Here is a picture to help you figure it out....

If you answer correctly, I'll tell you if my cheap Chinese plotter will cut it.

 

[The Equipment Guy]

A quality plotter and synthetic based liner on your vinyl for added weedability (since it sounds like you are only doing a few sq. feet at a time, the added skewing potential of synthetic liner would be diminished.)

Craig

 

[SignsonTime]

It's a hard day if we have to bring our own ladder.

Speechless!

 

[uranium]

signmeup:

Thanks for the extra effort. If I understand what you want, the lowercase "w" would be .375" high.

 

[signmeup]

I didn't want anything. You wanted to know how small a letter a cheap Chinese plotter would cut.
I have cut Times Roman at .375 high and smaller. It ain't no fun. Times Roman is a very thin font and is very tough to weed at that size but my plotter can cut it. Mine's a Desay xy300.

 

[Gino]

You say these are your three biggest customers, represent 90% of your work and other shops are knocking on their doors and you want to solve your problem with lesser then lousy quality tools and still keep them ?? You're cheap..... I take it and don't want to invest in your own livelihood or well-being.

Eventually, you'll figure out to keep up with... and ahead of the competition, you might have to bite the bullet and get the proper tools or lose your 90% work load and go down to nothing. Then your Chinese cutter will be a good investment.

 

[uranium]

Gino:

Last month I had $24k in the bank as my life savings. After helping my dear mother on some medical bills I have $400 left. At this moment I am poor, but normally I'm not too "cheap".

As I wrote, we've got guys producing our vinyl right now and they're great until they mess up. They have decent equipment, but sometimes they cut it waaaay too deep or somesuch thing. Otherwise everything is golden.

So I had this bright idea just a few days ago that if I could pull an all nighter occasionally and make a big SNAFU disappear, it would be a smart decision. I figured if I could get some cheap plotter right away to do emergency text, I could learn Corel 3x (which I have) and hit the ground running in a month or so when I can afford a Graphtec etc.

Sure, it might be a weird plan, but it's not crazy. If a cheap plotter could do small text well for a few months, I'd have my *ss covered by the end of next week.

I never said I wanted to hitch my star to a Honchai Super-Special. That would seem pretty stupid.

 

[Gino]

I'm glad you took care of your mother. That's a very admirable thing to do.... these days.

However, she doesn't fit into the business equation here. What you do in your private life usually won't fit in, unless you want to make excuses for things you need to do in business.

Get the cheap one. Many here have already said it sounds like a bad idea, so you just might be wasting your money. My thoughts are geared towards someone making a good sound business investment.

You have a few good accounts and it sounds as if you're worried they might leave. 15 years of loyalty is hard to find, but it's out there. We have customers that have been with me since the late 70's and 80's. You produce good honest work and they'll remain loyal. Screw up and have a few late jobs and loyalty today is out the window. While more and more companies are basing decisions on the bottom bid, you need to at least give your three customers everything they desire, because without one of them.... your sales are down 33%. Without all three, your sales are down 100% with them representing 90% of your overall sales. That 's the old expression.... putting all your eggs in one basket.

You have to cut all the extra baggage and decide business questions with good sound thinking and reasoning, not justify making poor business decisions because of family problems. You must remain focused and move forward... not backwards.

Convince a customer to advance you enough money to buy a good machine and throw them a bone to keep the interest down.... or get a loan from a bank. The other idea is a much better possibility.

Your best idea is getting a plotter/cutter in there you can relay on. I don't think the Chinese brands will do that for you, but if that's what you must do... take a chance. It will either work or it won't.

Do you like to gamble or bet on a sure thing ?? This purchase will tell.


Really, I'm not being mean, but you need to make a decision and it must be real, not clouded with emotions. However, if you feel you need to go with the lesser animal, then just please remember.... buyer beware. Again, your plan is not weird or crazy, if you take the junk machinery out of the blueprints. In fact, it's a very good idea and it's amazing no one thought of it sooner.


Good Luck................

 

[S'N'S]

Looks like I'm reading this post a little different to some, jesus, I thought it was a simple question.
I have cut 5mm letters with a cheap Chinese cutter (Creation 630) and with my Roland GX24 and they both cut fine tho the Roland does a better job. The thing with cutting small text is to make sure the blade is correctly adjusted, slow down the cutting and you can also use 60deg blade (sharper tip). One problem with the Chinese cutters is that not all sign programs support these cutters and can be a P.I.T.A to set up and get running properly. I would look around for a second hand Roland.