Newbie with print/plotter question?

[rxpress]

I have been cutting and laying out vinyl now for about 3 years on the side. Currently I am trying to make my business grow and still learning as I go. What I would like to do is print banners, decals and do wraps. So here is my question.
I have a vinyl express 24" cutter with lxi software, adobe photoshop and illustrator. I also have a small budget.

Is there a decent priced printer that I can get and how hard would it be to line it up in my cutter after printing? I am not familar with reloading and sending through to a cutter.
I was looking at a good deal on a roland hi-fi jet fj-50. Could I use this with my software and would it work for wraps?
Also how about a pc-60 or 600?
I would love to get a versacamm but can not afford at this time.

Sorry for so many questions but need to ask.
Thanks
Jay

 

[Bradster941]

Read this.

http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3720.html

and welcome to the board...

 

[rxpress]

Thanks for the link. Still new to all this.
Ps. Thanks for the welcome

 

[eforer]

I would read through this thread as it answers alot of your questions: http://signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17393

Also, using separate machines for printing and cutting IMO always makes more sense. Its not at all hard if you have a good quality plotter (ie Graphtec or Mimaki) to do contour cuts if the plotter has a registration mark sensor. Truthfully, the all in ones like the versacamms aren't really as good at either job as a good standalone machine. Furthermore, you have to reload the machine anyways if your going to laminate. Honestly, even with harsh, agressive inks etc. I still laminate everything but banners. You can bet your going to want laminate anything coming out of an eco-sol machine, so combining them makes little sense. Finally, you can run two jobs at once if you print and cut on separate equipment.

 

[rxpress]

Thanks eforer,
That was a good thread to read but I am still a little puzzled. I need to find out if my cutter has registration marks. How can I tell? Also which would be better, the hi-fi Jet or one of the epson machines talked about in that thread? Can an epson do wraps? Sorry for the many questions.
I would like to get just the printer and then a laminator latter. I agree with you as to be able to do more than one job at a time and it makes sense to me, probably just have to spend good quality time and learning curve to set it all up.
Thanks again

 

[Jackpine]

Thanks eforer,
That was a good thread to read but I am still a little puzzled. I need to find out if my cutter has registration marks. How can I tell? Also which would be better, the hi-fi Jet or one of the epson machines talked about in that thread? Can an epson do wraps? Sorry for the many questions.
I would like to get just the printer and then a laminator latter. I agree with you as to be able to do more than one job at a time and it makes sense to me, probably just have to spend good quality time and learning curve to set it all up.
Thanks again

I also believe the work flow and production is greater with a printer and a separate cutter. The Big Squeegee is an excellent tool for laminating and mounting prints, very cost effective.The tool works and for more than just laminating. The used and "repo" market are something to look into for startup. There are some shops that have 30" printers and want to step up to a wider format and sell their existing printer. You may want to find a printer to do sub work for you until you are ready to make the jump. I am no positive but I don't think Vinyl Express cutters have OPS. I would not buy a Colorcamm unless it was a PC600 and they are only effective for small decals. They print 22"x18" without having to panel, but that is another topic.

 

[rxpress]

Jackpine,
Thanks for your input. I do have a print company I work with now that I can sub out my print work. I am just looking to get my own one day and trying to see what is best. I think I will sub out for now and save some more money to get the right machine. I am still learning a lot.
I guess I can get a nice printer,plotter, and laminator when I get the money and keep the vinyl express as another small vinyl work machine.

 

[Jackpine]

Jackpine,
Thanks for your input. I do have a print company I work with now that I can sub out my print work. I am just looking to get my own one day and trying to see what is best. I think I will sub out for now and save some more money to get the right machine. I am still learning a lot.
I guess I can get a nice printer,plotter, and laminator when I get the money and keep the vinyl express as another small vinyl work machine.

Good plan.

 

[eforer]

+1, thats a great way to go. Too many people are jumping in head first into printing. There is a lot to it, and a conservative, slow approach like what you are doing is best.

As far as the registration mark question. A plotter that has an electric eye to detect printed registration marks is pretty much essential to a quick, quality contour cutting workflow. You print little tick marks on the graphic and when you load it in the cutter, the cutter finds them with its "eye" and uses that to register it self to the image. When you send it the cut instructions, it translates the cut path to correlate to the space defined by the marks. It sounds complicated but in practice its a piece of cake. I get perfect contour cuts quickly and easily out of my Mimaki CG-FX cutter. Graphtec also makes a top notch cutter with registration mark detection. I personally like the Mimaki as the bundled fine cut plug in for illustrator makes the whole process idiot proof.

As far as which is better, HiFi Jet or Epson. I would say both are a poor choice. To do wraps, banners etc. you can narrow your list of serious players down to Eco-Sol and Solvent machines. I believe you could convert the Hi-Fi jet to eco sol, but that would negate any of the cost savings that you would have purchasing that over one of the more serious printers. I would look into a Mutoh ValueJet if you don't have the space to have a separate print room with serious ventilation (although, eco-sol isn't terribly good for you either), if you have the space to vent a real solvent machine (eg not eco-sol) I would get a Mimaki JV3 or Seiko Colorpainter/HP 9000s (same machine). All of these would be a great backbone to a printing biz.

 

[rxpress]

WOW,
Thanks for all the input. You all are such a help.
I will stay with the ublet plan and save the dough as I grow.
Soon I will get there and learn all I can right here.
I am currently doing a box van and will post my results as I get it done.
We are currently going over proofs with the customer right now to make sure he gets what he wants.

A big Thanks to eforer and jackpine for all your help.

 

[eforer]

No problem, I'm glad your going with the sublet plan. It was disturbing to see that someone bought a PC-600 Roland on that other thread as their entry into the printing biz. I'm glad you waited and saved yourself.... errrr that sounds like an after school special. Well, anyways, good foresight on your part and when your ready to get into the hardware start a new thread and re-open the discussion.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

WOW,
Thanks for all the input. You all are such a help.
I will stay with the ublet plan and save the dough as I grow.
Soon I will get there and learn all I can right here.
I am currently doing a box van and will post my results as I get it done.
We are currently going over proofs with the customer right now to make sure he gets what he wants.

A big Thanks to eforer and jackpine for all your help.

if possible since you are working with a company that prints for you, see if you can arrange that they start to print WITH you, despite what most people who sub work out very rarely is a job you send out print ready the more you learn the easier it will be for your subcontractor. buying a printer is only half the battle learning how to get good predictable results out of it is the other, if you can familiarize yourself with the procedures now you will be well on your way when you do bite the bullet and bring a printer in house.

i am relieved to see you move on from the idea of buying a older roland.

 

[rxpress]

Sounds like a good idea, I will talk to him today. He is pretty cool and think he would probably let me watch on from time to time.