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Question Océ Arizona VS Agfa Anapurna

christianorfal

New Member
Hi,
I'm considering to buy a flatbed (used) to upgrade our old Chinese APEX.
Customers are becoming more and more demanding on quality and with an old machine can't keep up anymore.

I'm between the Océ Arizona 365GT and Afga Anapurna M2540 FB
Price is more or less the same. both, I have to add the RIP (ONYX or Asanti). According to the reps. both are similar in quality and ink cost, however the Agfa is a bit faster.

Any feedback and advice would very much appreciated.
Christian
 

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Our Arizona prints very nicely and has been reliable for nearly 5 years so far. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one.
I haven't used an Anapurna, so had to look up a spec sheet. Heads are 12pl only, compared to the variable dot Arizona heads 6-90pl (in 16 steps) which could potentially cause graininess but without first hand info I can't be sure.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
bang for buck would be the AGFA.
Oce aren't the cheapest, but really high quality machine. I would spend more though and get the 1200 series.
I also prefer the monitor to be remote and not mounted to the machine.
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
I saw the Anapurna at ISA and was really impressed. It's a very nice machine and the quality is there. Unless you're doing a lot of art or museum quality prints, you're not going to be limited by the larger droplet size. The prints are still VERY nice looking. If you can drop a few extra bucks, the Agfa Mira is even nicer. I've never been a huge fan of the Oces.

That being said, you might want to hold off a bit. HP apparently has something in the works that's supposed to be pretty amazing. There was some very hush-hush demo stuff going on with HP at ISA.
 

Jason DeLuca

New Member
If Quality is your main concern, can you get each rep to print a quality control sample of yours so you can see which one has the quality you would like? It would be interesting to see the difference since the Cannon has the Variable dot size but the Agfa has Light inks.

Good luck with what ever you purchase.
 

dasigndr

Premium Subscriber
Hi,
I'm considering to buy a flatbed (used) to upgrade our old Chinese APEX.
Customers are becoming more and more demanding on quality and with an old machine can't keep up anymore.

I'm between the Océ Arizona 365GT and Afga Anapurna M2540 FB
Price is more or less the same. both, I have to add the RIP (ONYX or Asanti). According to the reps. both are similar in quality and ink cost, however the Agfa is a bit faster.

Any feedback and advice would very much appreciated.
Christian
We were in the same predicament last year and we did a heck of a lot of research on both these machines and the HP FB750.
After all the research and seeing them all do test prints at the sign show, by far the best machine is the agfa!!
The cost is substantially higher here in Canada for the agfa.I have a friend who bought the Océ and he had a head strike the first week he had it and the warranty did not cover it. Cost him over $15,000 CDN to replace the heads which are bunched in pairs. I spoke to their rep at the sign show about this issue and he said there is no redundancy system that would prevent user error!!

we ended up going with the HP FB750 because we were offered a great deal and it was self maintaining machine.
 

AlsEU

New Member
If Quality is your main concern, can you get each rep to print a quality control sample of yours so you can see which one has the quality you would like? It would be interesting to see the difference since the Cannon has the Variable dot size but the Agfa has Light inks.

You may buy Arizona 12xx/22xx with CMYK only, additional white, doubled M and C channels or Lc Lm. The machine has up to 8 channels, a configuration is your choice.
 
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Reactions: Bly

Grizzly

It’s all about your print!
I owned a Arizona 660xt for a couple of years. I also own an AGFA Jeti 1224 HDC and an AGFA Jeti Titan HS. These are the bigger brothers to both the machines your looking at. From a production/usability/operator standpoint, if the software on the annapurna is similar to the Jeti's, I'd pick AGFA hands down. The Oce had all kinds of stupid things you couldn't do. For example, you couldn't pause a print and prime the heads, and then continue printing. The lamps have to turn off and your print is aborted. I also don't like the ink bag system on the Arizona. You have to always bleed the lines so you don't get air in the heads. Printhead cleaning took forever, with the little hand vacuum sucker. I can prime and print in less than 15 seconds on the AGFA's and knew my nozzles would always be firing. The Arizona was a totally different story. I was constantly doing nozzle test prints and sometimes spent 10-15 minutes just to get it running. If the nozzles aren't firing, the lamps half to turn off again and then you have to go through the whole process again. Lots of wasted ink. The GUI is also really limited in my opinion. No rotating or printing multiple different jobs at the same time on the same board. They have to all be ripped and nested together in the rip. No ink density control. When I had it, it didn't have table pins. They do now though. One of the first questions after the installed it. "Where's the pins?" The installers looked at me like, "What do you need pins for?" So showed them the 1224 HDC and they got it. (That was mostly our fault though, we bought the printer for a specific customer, for a specific job and didn't do our homework right." We had to print the table rulers and line up to the line. The table vacuum was horrible. You always had to have the entire area masked out or it didn't hold down media. Forget about cardboard unless you want to use two sided tape. Ok rant over. Truly, I think we just had a bad experience overall experience, because I've heard others who really like the Arizona's. That being said, when it's printing, it does print really good. I was impressed how well it printed as a 4 color machine. But, I wouldn't buy another flatbed that wasn't a 6 color machine.
Summary: I'd go with the Anapurna if the quality is there. I think the overall user experience is better.

Arizona Pros
Print quality is excellent
Batch system if you need it. We were doing layered prints and it works really well for that.
White ink is really opaque
Minimal Cure Banding

Arizona Cons
Software GUI
Bagged Ink System
Vacuum
Printhead Cleaning/ Ink Waste
Getting the white ink to print (I'd have it drop out right in the middle of prints)
No pins (When I had it.)
Ink chipped bags
Much more expensive ink

Titan Pros
Awesome GUI
Excellent Vacuum System
Quick printhead cleaning
Excellent Print Quality

Titan Cons
Slightly Worse Ink Adhesion
White ink is not as Opaque
A little cure banding when running in production mode.
 

christianorfal

New Member
Thank you all for your feedback. Very much appreciated.
We do a lot of sporting events and displays, so quality is important but not Museum quality is not required.
One of the major reasons I want to upgrade is the cure banding on our old machine.

I will do some tests on both machines just to be sure.
Will keep you posted.
C
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
Thank you all for your feedback. Very much appreciated.
We do a lot of sporting events and displays, so quality is important but not Museum quality is not required.
One of the major reasons I want to upgrade is the cure banding on our old machine.

I will do some tests on both machines just to be sure.
Will keep you posted.
C

Also worth noting that the Agfa puts down considerably less ink. There is virtually no texture to prints on the Anapurna, which makes it much easier to laminate prints for outdoor applications if you need to do so.
 

Signvinyl

New Member
You might be better and even cheaper with Mimaki JFX200-2513. UV-LED instant ready for use and and bunch of different ink types for any thinkable application.
 

Jason DeLuca

New Member
You may buy Arizona 12xx/22xx with CMYK only, additional white, doubled M and C channels or Lc Lm. The machine has up to 8 channels, a configuration is your choice.

so the 365GT has LC and LM? My apologies, I was under the impression that it was a 5 color machine, CMYK + W
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
so the 365GT has LC and LM? My apologies, I was under the impression that it was a 5 color machine, CMYK + W

Its only a CMYK machine. the 300 series is quite old now and the 365 is basically a 360 with newer technology inside the gantry. Like a revamped version of the 360.
If you want Lm and Lc then you should be looking at the 1200 series machines.
Personally i wouldn't even look at the 365, but straight to the 1200. Or used, a 400 series.

The 400 series is the newer series from the 300, then the 1200 is the newer series of the 400. it goes 100>200>300>400>1200
Then you have the 500>600>2100 which have the double row heads (I.e production machines)
500 is equivalent to the 300, 600 is equivalent to the 400 and 1200 & 2100 only difference is that they have double row heads and i think less vacuum zones.
 

AlsEU

New Member
Currently available models have up to 8 channels - 12xx and 22xx. Arizona 365 has 4 or 5 like Pauly wrote.
 
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