Printing On lamination film Round Two.

[Clear Choice Laminating]

I posted not to long ago asking what type of printer/ink/film people are using to print on top of laminate film.

I ran some blank paper sheets through our laminator using OPP Gloss and handed them of to a buddy of mine and below is the Result.

Please if you could chime in and tell me what is wrong with this picture?

printer used Mimaki Eco solvent

 

[mrugen]

Print on Laminate Film

Laminates, most of them do not have the ink receptive coating, so the ink puddles and does not dry properly. Ink never makes it through the surface. Isn't that what most laminates are for?

 

[mopar691]

I have never seen that problem printing on lam. Is it a anti graffiti lam? about once a month at least I find some use for printing on lam. I just clean it first with a little iso then print away. Only reason I clean is to prevent fish eyes and to delint.

 

[mpn]

I think you'll have a hard time printing on hot laminate film like that. Why are you printing on it and not the paper?

 

[Desert_Signs]

I've never tried printing on polypropylene film before. PVC laminates work just fine. I would imagine your problem is the particular laminate you tried to use.

 

[Clear Choice Laminating]

Sorry for being short in my previous post. We currently use printable laminating film for some of our offset printing customers and some for digital press's customers. I took the same printable film and tested it using a flatbed printer. It worked great but the quality is still not there. So I thought I would try to use a solvent printer. The image you saw above is from the solvent printer using a laminte with no print receptive coating I have tried laminates with print receptive coating but the results is almost the same.

I have tested the surface of vinly and there is no type of coating that I could see. please correct me if I am wrong which I think I am. so why is it that vinly prints fine and the laminate with a coating and no coating print horrible??

 

[P Wagner]

Solvent inks will react with most uncoated PVC-based materials, including print media and vinyl laminate films. If the media is not PVC-based, then solvent-receptive top-coating is a requirement to print with solvent ink. If this laminate is polyester-based (or other non PVC), and there are no coatings on it, you will get the results you see. It's all about the chemistry.

 

[SightLine]

I'd have to agree. We print on laminate a decent bit and in general it prints excellent on our solvent Mimaki. But we are printing on the same laminates that we use for laminating our solvent prints like Oracal 290. Of course since the inks are transparent it only looks good for certain uses.

 

[Mosh]

I print oracal 210 and 290 on my rolands all the time.

 

[Clear Choice Laminating]

Solvent inks will react with most uncoated PVC-based materials, including print media and vinyl laminate films. If the media is not PVC-based, then solvent-receptive top-coating is a requirement to print with solvent ink. If this laminate is polyester-based (or other non PVC), and there are no coatings on it, you will get the results you see. It's all about the chemistry.

Thank you for that.
My question to you is what type of top coating would it need? Looking for name or chemical name.

Would a different wide format printer work if I were using non pvc laminate? Latex?

 

[P Wagner]

Thank you for that.
My question to you is what type of top coating would it need? Looking for name or chemical name.

Would a different wide format printer work if I were using non pvc laminate? Latex?

You would need to purchase a media that is purpose-built to print with solvent inks. Media manufacturers make products for specific markets and ink chemistries. As I stated previously, some laminate films are PVC-based and others are not PVC. If the product is not PVC, it would need a specific coating to be applied to make it solvent ink compatible. (I do not know of any such non-PVC laminate).

Latex inks are able to bond with both PVC and various non-PVC medias, including specific coated and uncoated papers, films, polyesters, polyethylene, polypropylene, and polyester fabrics.

 

[mrugen]

Great discussion and other options

http://www.givemehelp.pivotshare.com

Great discussion! Lots of real world comments. Thanks to all. I think I'll create a video for this. If you have something already or want to shoot video, do so and let me see it. Ill add it to my "Graphics Professionals Learning Channel" where I host videos on all graphics production topics. Make it nice, and I'll set it up and pay you as well.

Guidelines

1) Doesn't have to be professional video, but should be clear with some teaching shots.
2) If you voice over, should be easy to hear.
3) Most important is to clearly tell everyone what you are doing each step of the way.

OF COURSE, be sure to post here as well!

Send subissions privately please.

 

[player]

http://www.givemehelp.pivotshare.com

Great discussion! Lots of real world comments. Thanks to all. I think I'll create a video for this. If you have something already or want to shoot video, do so and let me see it. Ill add it to my "Graphics Professionals Learning Channel" where I host videos on all graphics production topics. Make it nice, and I'll set it up and pay you as well.

Guidelines

1) Doesn't have to be professional video, but should be clear with some teaching shots.
2) If you voice over, should be easy to hear.
3) Most important is to clearly tell everyone what you are doing each step of the way.

OF COURSE, be sure to post here as well!

Send subissions privately please.

Have you just hijacked this thread and spammed your own site?

 

[John Butto]

let Mrugen do his thing...

Mrugen is a videographer, it is an art form. He sees the subject being brought up about printed lamination and gets inspired to create. I applaud him for his efforts, I may not applaud when I see his work but he understands rejection because that also is part of being an artist.
He will have his critics, but that is part of the form also.

 

[player]

Mrugen is a videographer, it is an art form. He sees the subject being brought up about printed lamination and gets inspired to create. I applaud him for his efforts, I may not applaud when I see his work but he understands rejection because that also is part of being an artist.
He will have his critics, but that is part of the form also.

OK thanks John.

 

[mrugen]

Appreciate the Concern...

All, I appreciate the concern about hijacking the site etc. NEVER, EVER my intention. As stated, I create training videos and thought this was a good one to tackle. I even said, if I get this done it would be posted here for all to learn from. YES, I do charge form my service on MY sites, but no one has to visit or pay if they do not want to visit. However, many do. Why?

I've been in the graphics business over 25 years.
I've owned and run three sign shops over the years and know what we all face day to day.
I have most recently worked with SEAL and done training on those laminators and films.

I only want to teach & educate for a living. I NEVER intentionally wish to offend, just thought this was a good subject to expand on here and elsewhere.

 

[JJGraphics]

I've never considered printing on laminate before. In what context/application would you want to print on laminate?

If I ever wanted to, would my Mimaki with solvent ink print on the Oracal 210 that I use?

Thanks!
Justin

 

[SightLine]

I've never considered printing on laminate before. In what context/application would you want to print on laminate?

If I ever wanted to, would my Mimaki with solvent ink print on the Oracal 210 that I use?

Thanks!
Justin

It will print on it just fine. The use depends on what you are trying to achieve. You could reverse print on the laminate, then laminate solid white vinyl on top of that, viola' - decals on clear vinyl. For example to apply to the inside of glass to be viewed from the outside. The adhesive on the laminate itself is what would be applied to the glass. You need prints on clear to be backed up with white (or light silver) to be opaque since your inks are transparent. There are other uses as well like for backlit signs. Instead of doubling up ink on the front backlit vinyl print which make all the colors stupidly dark during the day or single ink which makes all the colors stupidly washed out at night, print it single ink, then print a second in reverse on clear laminate and apply it to the inside of the acrylic.... looks great both day and night.

 

[TXFB.INS]

thread pirate

have a project along these lines that needs the image to be reverse printed to clear and then have a white overlay for back lit illumination


has anyone used IJ61 or IJ8150, specifically on a Roland OEM ink?

What translucent film do you suggest? looking at Orafol 8500 series, but not sure if it be a 3 mil will block too much lighting.

 

[MikePro]

Please if you could chime in and tell me what is wrong with this picture?

View attachment 101673

ya, know the limits of your printer/inkset.

your issue is with ecosolvent ink, and printing on media that is not receptive to it.
I print on laminates, colored vinyls, heck....even corkboard, all the time.... with my solvent jv3 aaaaand now my hp latex.

ecosolvent, on the other-hand, is not aggressive enough to bite into your media.