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Shop Window Lettering

F

fresh

New Member
I have a client who sent me amazing artwork files to replace the door lettering at their restaurant. Its a 24x12 full color, contour cut graphic, applied on both sides of the door.

The original sign has been up for about 3 years, and is completely faded (no lamination) which is why it needs to be replaced. We can actually use cut-vinyl for this job, there are only 3 colors (plus white background) and they are solid, but its easier just to print it.

I quoted $145 to remove old lettering and install new graphics. We are professionals, I should be getting at least $75 for any installation, no matter how small. Anyway, the owner came back and said they had gotten a quote for $90, and then emailed me later when she looked at it and it was actually $40!! She even sent me the quote. The other sign company even said they were going to use CAST VINYL (but not laminated) ?!? So $10 / sq ft printed, contour cut, and installed??? WTF

I should note, the quote was from a franchise, not someone working out of their basement. Who quotes $40 for anything installed on site??? Am I in the twilight zone?
 
F

fresh

New Member
So what would you quote for this? Its part of a bigger job including 2x2' magnets (quoted $75 each). The original quote totaled around $750. Its not like this is some HUGE job that I can be throwing in stuff for free.
 
Bigdawg

Bigdawg

Just Me
We keep finding the client ends up doing something that is not at all what we quoted. I would have been around your same price for the windows - maybe more if the old vinyl was a PITA to take off.

Lately we see jobs we quoted on (and didn't do) that are NOTHING like we originally quoted. Like seeing the 12' pan face we quoted done as a flat acrylic instead. Or a cabinet sign w/three areas (they wanted to be able to change panels easily) done as one sign and black vinyl lines separating the businesses - in the hot Florida sun, if they change that (even soon) there will be ghosting.

We would have done (and quoted) the cabinet sign as one piece - but I'm not quoting a 12 ft sign flat instead of pan just to get the job. Finding out that anymore - they only look at the bottom line cost without accounting for longevity or whether the materials are appropriate to the sign.
 
J

john1

Guest
I'd be at $90 for the new graphics installed on 3M IJ35c with laminate, Removal would be another $25-50 depending on how hard it was to get off

For $40, Let them have it.
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
I rarely ever quote jobs like that anymore. Every mom and pop shops get excited over a 40 dollar job. Not wasting time on something i'll in the end make 0 on.

The only time i ever consider matching a job is if it's over 1500. Anything below that isn't worth my time.

Yesterday I lost a customer because he didn't want to pay a deposit on logo design, but wanted to see designs before he paid (yeah right)
then a guy wanted me to match 3 banners 3x6... like by 45 bucks? Seriously...? go away.

Like the guy we lost because of the logo to came in a few weeks ago wanting logos, then a truck done, and some stationary.. so i said well here's a price let me know
he comes back yesterday asking where the logo was. I said well.. we're waiting for a deposit.. he literally snatched the card out of my designers hand and said, ok going somewhere else.

I said ok, see ya.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
More than likely, your franchise competitor is just trying to get their foot in the door.

The cost of $40 is not worth one color, let alone 3 or 4 after you consider cutting, weeding, travel time, taping it up, lining it off and finishing it. Nope, their eyes are to hook someone and land a bigger fish down the road.

They also might have more equipment than you and can produce it more cost effectively than you, but pass the savings onto the client without thinking of profit for themselves. Some idiots out there actually think if you keep busy all the time, you're gonna eventually make money. Those are the ones to watch and when they crumble, grab up their equipment for pennies on the dollar.


One thing you might want to try with this person, if the sale isn't completely lost. Talk to them and explain your concern for something so unthinkably cheap. Go further to show, with prices like this, they have to be cutting something somewhere and it will probably be in the wear and tear section of their guarantee. When someone opts just for price, they are very likely to be shopping around again for the same thing long before the expected time limit is up. The one difference is... that other shop won't be around anymore to give them more bad service. So, they'll end up looking for another cheap deal which will also go south on them. They can put a stop to this, if they go with some quality for a change and pay a little higher price and that you are willing to gain their trust, by offering them a little further incentive.

Ya can't lose, unless you don't try. I've often sharpened my pencil to land a deal, regardless if it's $750 or $75,000.
 
F

fresh

New Member
Gino said:
More than likely, your franchise competitor is just trying to get their foot in the door.

The cost of $40 is not worth one color, let alone 3 or 4 after you consider cutting, weeding, travel time, taping it up, lining it off and finishing it. Nope, their eyes are to hook someone and land a bigger fish down the road.

They also might have more equipment than you and can produce it more cost effectively than you, but pass the savings onto the client without thinking of profit for themselves. Some idiots out there actually think if you keep busy all the time, you're gonna eventually make money. Those are the ones to watch and when they crumble, grab up their equipment for pennies on the dollar.


One thing you might want to try with this person, if the sale isn't completely lost. Talk to them and explain your concern for something so unthinkably cheap. Go further to show, with prices like this, they have to be cutting something somewhere and it will probably be in the wear and tear section of their guarantee. When someone opts just for price, they are very likely to be shopping around again for the same thing long before the expected time limit is up. The one difference is... that other shop won't be around anymore to give them more bad service. So, they'll end up looking for another cheap deal which will also go south on them. They can put a stop to this, if they go with some quality for a change and pay a little higher price and that you are willing to gain their trust, by offering them a little further incentive.

Ya can't lose, unless you don't try. I've often sharpened my pencil to land a deal, regardless if it's $750 or $75,000.
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I emailed back a response stating the low quote was right around a wholesale rate, and also the quoted material is wrong for the job.. (Un-laminated Cast Vinyl for glass door?? Why?) It is a chain restaurant with about 12 locations, so yes, they may have been looking to get their foot in the door, but I don't believe that undercutting everyone (and yourself) is the way to do it.

The whole reason they contacted us was because we did some "Tow Away" signs for them a few months ago, and they were very pleased with our work and turn-around. I think this was after they had the quote from the the other company. The other company did a layout for a small sign, and they were less than impressed. I don't what to say, this is a very well known restaurant chain. I'm at a loss.

EDIT to say: Gino, you are correct, we are small and may have higher costs. At the rate she was quoted, I would be losing money. I don't want to lose money on the first job I do for someone, no matter what might happen in the future.
 
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OlsonSigns601

New Member
I do mine with 651 for $50 in town. Generally One Color White Vinyl.
I do at least one or two a week and I put them on on my way home. Generally paid in cash used for dinner that night.

However, there is no way I would go printed graphics, laminated or not for less than $90
 
Pat Whatley

Pat Whatley

New Member
Pat White said:
Let em have it! When it fades to nothing next year maybe they'll come back crying.
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No they won't. When it fails next years they'll go right back to the cheap shop again. The cheap shop will tell them X amount to redo it or XXX amount to redo it with better materials. They'll go the cheap route again.

State of the Union....the vast majority of people are living in the moment and forgetting the future exists. 65% of Americans don't even have $1000 in the bank. You think people used to living paycheck to paycheck are thinking about what their signs are gonna look like 5 years from now?
 
TheSnowman

TheSnowman

New Member
I had a guy from the pizza place across the street come over yesterday. He got all new store front windows, and me and another company in town had quoted them a few months back, not really knowing for sure what the final size would be. He came over and said that my quote was $100 more than the other guys, but he was going to use me because it's been a nightmare dealing with the other guys on anything.

I get that a lot lately, and I don't know if that's the truth or not. Seems strange to me that these kinds of people that have been somewhere, and still shop around for a quote, then end up coming here. If I have a problem with some place, I don't get a quote from them on the next project and go with the guy that bid highest...I just plain old don't use them again.

I seem to have gotten rid of a bunch of the low end work though, that everyone thought should be a $3 job, (which it should have, but I'd have lost money in my time involved) and convinced people that I'm going to be worth it in the end because they'll like their artwork we provide instead of having helvetica stretched across their windows for a lower price.

Hang in there. You did good sticking to your guns. Everyone here always told me to never lower my price (most of the time) for people. That changed my clientele over the past five years, and it's been nothing but good. You may not have all the work that the other guys have, but they're slammed working all night, when you go home, and you still make the same money, and have better customers.
 
F

fresh

New Member
kraigsnowden said:
Hang in there. You did good sticking to your guns. Everyone here always told me to never lower my price (most of the time) for people. That changed my clientele over the past five years, and it's been nothing but good. You may not have all the work that the other guys have, but they're slammed working all night, when you go home, and you still make the same money, and have better customers.
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Thank you for that. In the past month I've sold FIVE dimensional signs. We only want to do dimensional signs, and somehow I've convinced people that printed vinyl on random substrate is not the best for their business. Hopefully we'll actually start making a profit sometime soon. :)
 
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