Signs, screen printing, AND copy shop?

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

We get hit up quite a bit by the locals asking us if we make copies. Thus far, the answer has been no and we really haven't given it much thought. However, yesterday a sales rep came in from a place that sells new and refurbished Konica Minolta, Kip, and HP copy systems, cutting systems, etc. We could purchase an entry level full color copier that does 40 quality prints per minute for around $59.00 a month and change on a 5 year lease. We are giving this some consideration.

Has anyone here delved into adding copy shop capabilities to your sign or screen printing shop? If so, what was your experience? Is it a worthwhile venture? Any insight would be much appreciated.

 

[synergy_jim]

we do copies. its a PITA!

 

[Biker Scout]

RUN!!!

I've had really bad luck with Konica-Minolta copiers. (40ppm is slow btw)

Ask your sales rep about "cost per click" AND how much is the service agreement that they force upon you. AND does the service agreement include free toner and free delivery of the toner?

Once you add up all those numbers and then you can soon realize that your cost per copy is going to slightly higher than you anticipated. Any messed up copies, you pay for, proofs, you pay for. The only copies you don't pay for are the ones the tech runs when they are working on the machine. But insist on a meter reading before and after. Had a tech run nearly 250 copies one time, when trying to help us dial in the timing of thicker card stock from the large capacity tray. They could never get it right, and when you took the prints back to the cutter, none of the crop marks ever ended up matching. They averaged about 4 "groups" of matching crop marks. Had to go through sheet by sheet, fan them all out and sort them by crop mark distance and offset. And forget about paper skew. I'd say the Konica had the worst skew out of all our copiers.

I think cheapest overall operational cost was the Sharp. But just not the greatest prints. Decent, just not anywhere near our Xante Laser Printer. (Which is an OKIdata)

Xerox was out nicest machine, but needed service a lot. Same with the Canon. But with both of those you'd need serious volume.

You mentioned KIP! (C7800) Now, there's a machine I'd love to have in my shop! It's basically a 36" laser printer that prints on rolls, and super fast! There's a great untapped market potential with that kind of speed. Think about 3x8 banner (on tyvek, or polyproplene) printed in 30 seconds! While the customer waits. No hemming, will accept grommets, and does last outside about the same amount as regular banner.

But if you want a large laser printer, that's easy on the wallet, and the lowest cost per page, and super fast, runs 12x18... look no further than the new Ricoh Aficio SP831DN

I have that printer, and I love it! Been a workhorse, and never needs futzing with. I can now buy toner for $41 per color! My cost per copy is more about the paper I use, rather than my toner coverage! I average 5500 12x18 copies between toner changes. Almost always full coverage. I do lots of glossy labels and package design for quite a few clients. I can run 110lb Mohawk Cover through the bypass, and crop marks are always on! Been a huge money maker, and I don't think I paid more than $3600 for it.

Oh, and if you're real careful, you can actually run regular vinyl through the machine. Just need to laminate it right afterwards so in handling it, it doesn't scratch.

 

[Z SIGNS]

http://scansnapcommunity.com/features/1197-the-world-is-going-paperless-are-you-riding-the-wave/

Not much future in paper

And now that I think about it not much future in cutting vinyl or printing either.

 

[Biker Scout]

Here's something I ran through my Ricoh on Oracal 651 white. Then I laminated, and trimmed it.



Just look at the detail you can do with toner based systems!


That's why I'd love to get a KIP C7800. I took a bunch of their regular paper samples from the sign show a few years ago, and reverse mounted them with some double sided optically clear adhesive on to some acrylic. And I gotta say, I can really see that doing really well for our POP and Menu type work. Speed, and low cost are always great ways to increase profits.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

RUN!!!

I've had really bad luck with Konica-Minolta copiers. (40ppm is slow btw)

Ask your sales rep about "cost per click" AND how much is the service agreement that they force upon you. AND does the service agreement include free toner and free delivery of the toner?

Yes, the service agreement would include free toner and free delivery.

 

[Biker Scout]

Your $59 will soon balloon into $500 - $600 a month. It's even more aggravating when the machine is down, because the corona wires are fried. Gonna need to get a new part from the manufacturer. Will only take about 4-5 days. Then we'll call you to set-up a time to have our techs come out and replace it. *AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

And you get that lump in your throat when you realize that you are on the hook for $36,000 over a 5 year period. The machine seems to be down more than running, and the lease company won't do anything to get you out of it, transfer it to a new machine... nothing.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Your $59 will soon balloon into $500 - $600 a month. It's even more aggravating when the machine is down, because the corona wires are fried. Gonna need to get a new part from the manufacturer. Will only take about 4-5 days. Then we'll call you to set-up a time to have our techs come out and replace it. *AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

And you get that lump in your throat when you realize that you are on the hook for $36,000 over a 5 year period. The machine seems to be down more than running, and the lease company won't do anything to get you out of it, transfer it to a new machine... nothing.

How do you figure $500-600 per month?

 

[shoresigns]

I would never get into small scale paper printing/copying. I worked at a print shop temporarily after doing signs, and I just couldn't handle it. Too hard to make money doing $5-20 jobs all day. Even if you get a self serve copier for your shop and you have enough foot traffic to justify it, you'll be troubleshooting it all day. Anything larger than $50 or so, there's a bigger dedicated print shop that can do it for a fraction of the price, so you end up outsourcing all the big jobs and only using your printer for little jobs. I would hate for my monthly income to depend on how many $5 jobs I can avoid.

 

[Vital Designs]

we do copies. its a PITA!

+1 !!!!!!!!

 

[toomeycustoms]

How do you figure $500-600 per month?

Cost Per Click charges. Usually you must have a service agreement. Average around here is .08 per color click and .01 for B&W for the slower Konica's. If you get one of the production presses, it is around .04 color and .006 b&w from what I remember. We have a Konica C550 that we bought used on Craigslist for $2500. However, we no longer offer small format printing unless it is a high run job. The small jobs just aren't worth the time. If you have a lot of walk by traffic, you'll soon be frustrated by the people who come in for only a few copies that consume 10+ minutes of your time.

 

[HulkSmash]

Why on earth would you want to do copies.

I rather stab myself in the throat

HUGE waste of time with 0 profit, unless you're doing HUGE volume, and then you will never be able to compete with the online and huge existing small format companies with your 30 dollar a month printer.

do yourself a favor, and run away from that idea.

 

[Mosh]

Our local office supply STOPPED MAKING COPIES! I know the owner and he told me he is glad to have that noose off his neck.
I get calls weekly. I also get photo development call, not planning on doing that either.

 

[Biker Scout]

Incidentally that's how I wandered into signs... when I realized that chasing pennies was a losing proposition. The amount of busy work that goes into having one of those in-house isn't worth it. However, the convenience of having a large laser printer for proofs, small runs of less than 250 to get clients out the door, until the "full order" comes in is a huge boon. Walk-in copies... yeah... you'll never make much money, and will end up being a headache after about 4-5 months. And then you'll realize you're stuck.

It's not "Niche-y" enough to matter, or be able to upsell or promote as a premium service.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

So the general concensus is to run fast! Thank you, guys. I really appreciate your valuable feedback.