Who to blame?

[FatCat]

OK, so a month or so we did an emergency job for a large qty of cut vinyl. The customer was a sign shop in Texas, their contact said to match Gerber high performance white vinyl. I was told by some here and elsewhere that 3M and Gerber are basically the same thing, so we ordered 3M 7125 high performance white, cut the job and everyone was happy.

Fast forward to today and my contact said the vinyl is starting to peel off the wall. Now, I stress we didn't install it and I have no idea the circumstances of the install nor did we do anything but what our customer requested. However, the strange thing is they say all the vinyl they supplied they had no problem with and apparently all the vinyl we supplied is the only batch peeling???

Again, this is 3M high performance white, we've used it on countless projects and I've never experienced a problem. My first reaction was to guess a problem that the walls were just painted, or painted with one of those paints that has additives in it that makes it hard for the vinyl to adhere...? However, this doesn't make sense as it seems to only be affecting the 3M.

So if you were in our shoes, do you call B.S., tell them we aren't responsible because we didn't do the install...or...?

I feel we couldn't have done any more than what we were asked.

 

[Billct2]

Everything was installed at the same time and in the same place? Theirs' that stuck & yours that didn't?

 

[Gino]

4. Limitations of End UsesA. 3M does not normally warrant other uses or applications, but please contact us to discuss your needs or let us suggest other 3M products.
Do not use the filmfor these end uses

• Non-vertical applications
• Application to corrugated surfaces or surfaces with compound curves
• Application to stainless steel for fleet applications
• Graphics exposed to petroleum products or fumes
• Thermoforming
• Backlit signage (Use one of the 3M™ Scotchcal™ Translucent Graphic Film Seriesinstead)
• Use in Summa's SummaChrome™ or DuraChrome™ printers or similar printers

 

[FatCat]

Everything was installed at the same time and in the same place? Theirs' that stuck & yours that didn't?

No, they had a first batch or batches of film that they supplied. I don't know if they screwed up and didn't cut everything they needed to or...?
But the situation was they needed this faster than they could cut it and ship it from Texas .
(We basically did it and delivered it next day)

I assume they installed it at a separate time from the rest.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

Did they send pics?

 

[Billct2]

The reason I ask is I wonder if it was all installed on the same surface under the same conditions by the same people.
Any deviation from that may hold the answer.
Lots of problems these days from some of the paints being used for walls.

 

[FatCat]

The reason I ask is I wonder if it was all installed on the same surface under the same conditions by the same people.
Any deviation from that may hold the answer.
Lots of problems these days from some of the paints being used for walls.

Agree on all the above, and no, have not seen pics yet.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I would insist on photos being taken, and knowing other factors such as when was the wall painted, what type of paint was used, how was the wall prepped prior to applying the vinyl etc. before I made a decision on how to handle this.

3M makes gerber's vinyl, from what I've heard it's identical.

my gut tells me they are trying to blame you for their mistake. If all you did was cut the vinyl, tell them to take it up with 3M.

 

[SightLine]

Our policy when we are only supplying material and not also installing it - the guarantee/warranty on the material ends the moment we hand/ship it to you. It has to be this way as you have no way of knowing anything about the installation.

If you want to be supplied material with any more of a warranty then become a sign company and order it from a distributor. Then you can take it up with the distributor and manufacturer (3M, Avery, etc).

 

[DSC]

Uh. oh...

"their contact said to match Gerber high performance white vinyl. I was told by some here and elsewhere that 3M and Gerber are basically the same thing, so we ordered 3M 7125 high performance white, cut the job and everyone was happy"

This is the problem .. It really doesn't matter what or who put it on the wall and ow they did or when..

They asked for a spec on the vinyl.. you did not provide that spec..

If you couldn't have done it, something should have been said ... (I assume you did not check to see if the 3M was ok to use)..

It is a tough lesson to learn .. I have been there myself ..

I wish you the best of luck.. !

 

[Marlene]

"their contact said to match Gerber high performance white vinyl. I was told by some here and elsewhere that 3M and Gerber are basically the same thing, so we ordered 3M 7125 high performance white, cut the job and everyone was happy"

This is the problem .. It really doesn't matter what or who put it on the wall and ow they did or when..

They asked for a spec on the vinyl.. you did not provide that spec..

If you couldn't have done it, something should have been said ... (I assume you did not check to see if the 3M was ok to use)..

It is a tough lesson to learn .. I have been there myself ..

I wish you the best of luck.. !

this is what I thought too. why didn't you buy the Gerber vinyl that was spec'd? did they OK the change in product?

 

[FatCat]

"their contact said to match Gerber high performance white vinyl. I was told by some here and elsewhere that 3M and Gerber are basically the same thing, so we ordered 3M 7125 high performance white, cut the job and everyone was happy"

This is the problem .. It really doesn't matter what or who put it on the wall and ow they did or when..

They asked for a spec on the vinyl.. you did not provide that spec..

If you couldn't have done it, something should have been said ... (I assume you did not check to see if the 3M was ok to use)..

It is a tough lesson to learn .. I have been there myself ..

I wish you the best of luck.. !

No, this was discussed with them in advance. I told them I could not get Gerber vinyl from my local vendors - and they agreed to use the 3M vinyl.

 

[DSC]

No, this was discussed with them in advance. I told them I could not get Gerber vinyl from my local vendors - and they agreed to use the 3M vinyl.

Then THEY are SOL .. Good on you.... for covering your a

 

[FatCat]

Then THEY are SOL .. Good on you.... for covering your a

Well, I agree, but I still don't understand what the difference would be, and honestly I feel bad for them.
Granted, I am 100% sure it's nothing we did, vinyl was discussed and agreed upon, but I can't know conditions, install temps, installers, etc...

My gut tells me some kind of paint issue.

 

[player]

The one thing you could have done was get paid up front...

So if you redo it, how much vinyl and time are you out? What's your contract worth? Are they a good customer or potentially lucrative in the future?

I might consider redoing it with Gerber vinyl, on the condition they pay you as originally agreed.

 

[DSC]

Nice Guy ..

Well, I agree, but I still don't understand what the difference would be, and honestly I feel bad for them.
Granted, I am 100% sure it's nothing we did, vinyl was discussed and agreed upon, but I can't know conditions, install temps, installers, etc...

My gut tells me some kind of paint issue.

Ya it does suck for THEM..

That new valspar paint with the non stain stuff is terrible for us..

I have had so many issues with new paint technology .. not knowing what is there.. Good luck!

 

[jfiscus]

You used the correct vinyl requested. That point you are correct on.
If they wanted a "high tack" vinyl instead of "high performance" vinyl then they should have specified 225 vinyl. Then you would have know to buy the correct material in wider rolls with the plastic release liner.
Walls are NEVER created equal; just the other day I did some 3M 220 viny cut wall graphics in a room; one wall was a real nightmare to stick (MULTIPLE cleanings and torch passes and it "stuck") the other was just fine. You NEVER know what a wall was painted with and the only way to tell is with a test kit or being there.

I would be hesitant to say that they were mixing your vinyl with others' cut vinyl on the exact same wall.

 

[FatCat]

Again, I agree with all that has been said - and in fact, I requested we be paid 100% full up front, which they did via credit card because it was a rush. Looked back and see we invoiced this last month on the 17, so they "might" have some recourse with the credit card co. if they want to be crappy...

We're paid, job was done as agreed upon, this is just something that has happened and I want to make sure when they start throwing stones that it isn't us.

Again, my gut tells me it's a wall, paint, prep, install issue and that is where I am going to stand - just wanted to hear it from everyone else first.

 

[signage]

You supplied what they asked for "cut vinyl", once it leaves you shop/hands you have completed your service to them!

 

[player]

3M has had some bad vinyl before though...

How many hours and how much vinyl to replace? Maybe offer he supplies the vinyl, you supply the cutting?