Why do my panels never line up?

[biggmann]

We have been wrapping for some time now and it seems from time to time we run into a problem of our panels when printing large graphics for a large sign or trailer wrap never line up. What I do it after they are printed and lammed I lay them on the table and get them lined up as close as perfect as I can get then tape them together so in the end I have one huge panel. Then in the case of a trailer wrap tape the whole thing on the trailer and get it positioned and then hang each individual panel and work my way along. I check before I even lay the next panel if it is still lined up and most of the time it is and then start at the top and lay about a 15 to 20 inch piece down and then I have a small clamp that I hang on the panel for even tension and pull the backing paper off and work my way down. This is where the problem starts, the panels that were lined up at the start aren't lined up now and I don't know what I am doing wrong to have this happen. It is obviously my technique and I am stretching the material but I don't know how. Is there a special way to do this? I have also had this happen laying prints on crezon boards, they line up and when I put them down and place the next board to it they are off. The sad thing is for the boards I am using the Rolls Roller so it should be perfect. I am looking for any advice on what I am doing wrong so I can actually be proud of my install.

 

[nashvillesigns]

lining up panels is never fun. do you do overprints where the seam is? even my banners have this problem. i have to print a copy of the seam on both panels so i can "cinch" it up before gluing

 

[Signed Out]

Could have something to do with clamping a weight to the bottom for "even tension" We just let the panels hang freely after the top portion is laid.

 

[biggmann]

I do give them an over print, sometimes as much as half an inch just to be safe.

 

[omgsideburns]

"Media feed calibration" As the size of the media roll changes on long runs, you get variations in the actual length of the print.. On tensioned media feeds, it'll slowly get shorter because it takes more force to feed the media off the roll. If it's untensioned, prints will slowly get longer because the roll is lighter and easier to feed. Don't know about your printer, but on mine I can measure points on my print and adjust it on the fly.

 

[ironchef]

What kind of printer do you have side burns? I get the same problem but i thought it was from the vinyl stretching naturally while applying.

 

[omgsideburns]

If they aren't lining up on the table, then that's the problem. If it lines up on the table, but not when you're applying it then yeah it's just stretching.

I'm referencing my old Colorspan 72uvr.

 

[HulkSmash]

If they aren't lining up on the table, then that's the problem. If it lines up on the table, but not when you're applying it then yeah it's just stretching.

I'm referencing my old Colorspan 72uvr.

I doubt it has anything to do with the printer shrinking the panels.
you're most likely slightly skewing the panels or over stretching when pulling the backing paper off or something of the sorts.

 

[jfiscus]

When printing: check the box to "Flip Every Other Panel", or do that manually if you make manual panels/tiles. That will fix a lot of different issues you may run into.

If the panels line up perfectly on the table before you take them out to install; then you are stretching them when you take the backer off and install them. If you stretch them all the same amount it wont really matter. Is your application/install area climate controlled?

 

[biggmann]

Yes our work area is climate controlled ( thank go for AC in these hot days). Our printer is a Roland VS540, Im not sure if versawoks has the flip every other tile but I will check for sure, that might help. As for the feed calibration, I have seen it on there somewhere but know how to use it is a whole other story but I am going to investigate that first thing in the a.m. Also the stretching of the vinyl when we take the backing paper off is something I thought is the issue but I dont know how to get around that, either way you do it it seems the vinyl is going to stretch.

 

[xxtoni]

Does this happen on the sides (left and right) of the vinyl or on the length ?

If it's the sides I can maybe offer an explanation.

Unfortunately this happens a lot in my shop as well when I'm not installing the media myself and I constantly throw tandruds because of it to make sure that everyone does it the right way.

When you are installing media on a printer you absolutely have to make sure that it's centered properly. IF you don't do that what happens eventually is that, if the media isn't centered properly the direction in which it is leaning will further be worsened by the pinch rollers, they will push the media that way so on a long print (5-10+ meters) you can lose several centimeters of media on one side. Another issue is having half a pinch roller on the media and the other half off, that can also cause the issue I described above or even worse, it can lead to the media "rising" up up, or bubble up and the head can hit it and that could lead to either ruined print or as a worst case damaged print head.

The proper way to center a media is to grab it with your hand in the middle pull it forward, over heater on the printer and inwards towards the printer. You can usually feel a significant change in the direction of the vinyl when you pull it this way. Now with the centered media make sure that all the pinch rollers are within the media and that none of them are one part on the media and one off, they also shouldn't be too close to the edge of the media. Once all of this is done put the pinch rollers down.

I've also attached an image to illustrate it better as this may be vague.

This can be a huge issue on long prints and can certainly cause the problems you are describing.

As others have suggested you need to have a certain amount of bleed on such prints but other than that I'm not sure what it could be. We regularly do whole car wraps (doing one right now as a matter of fact) and unless someone screwed up the design before the print it is never a problem.

One thing that could cause it, though it's a stretch, is that the solvent could stretch the media (no pun intended) if the solvent is too strong it could do it but that would be highly unusual.

Are you absolutely sure that it isn't an issue in the design department, as said you must have decent bleeds to accommodate long prints like big banners and mesh. On the other hand when we do car wraps our alignment is (and has to be) so precise that you can apply text that's a centimeter wide.

 

[xxtoni]

Just talked to one of my guys that operates our VS-640 frequently. He says that as far as overlaps are concerned he only does the automatic 10mm overlap in the tilling in VersaWorks and that he never had this issue with the Roland. He had the issue with another printer of ours but he attributes it to general inaccuracy of that printer, which is for outdoor stuff like banners and billboards which don't have to be that precise.

If you are using the 10mm overlap on the tiling there are 2 other things I could attribute it to: take up system pulling too hard or an encoder strip or calibration issue.

If you have a sensor based take up system and not a tension based one (the tension based one basically pulls a bit all the time and when it meets a bit of resistance it stops pulling and then as soon as there is no tension it starts pulling again) that may pull too hard and stretch the media. The other thing could be the calibration of the feeders or something with the encoder strip. I'd guess though that it isn't something with the encoder strip because for it to make such a big difference you would see banding on the print so that's probably not it.

 

[biggmann]

the lining up of the vinyl makes perfect sense, I know that's how I do it but I don't think anyone else does and I never gave it much thought. But I know the last trailer we did, which I didn't print personally we did have alignment issues so I am going to let everyone know that and to make sure the rollers are on the film not half and half (which I have seen).

We do use a tension based take up system and that too could be a contributing factor, if it isn't put on square and we print the whole side of a trailer by the time it gets to the end its pulling more on one side than the other so again that could be the issue. I am going to have to watch the whole process next time and make sure it is done correctly from the start and see if we still have issues.

 

[xxtoni]

The reason it pulls towards one side more is:

1) Because of the previous issue of alignment, it may not be coming out straight from the machine
2) The way you take the vinyl onto the take up roll. We have gotten a hang of it by just doing one piece of tape in the middle but at first we did 3. Middle and the sides. The sides are most important because you need to pull it firmly to the bottom and the side you're applying it to, so if you're taping the left side you would pull down and left at the same time and then tape it onto the roll. If it still leans towards one side you can manually even it out, even when it's already rolling by manually turning the take up roll until it straightens up. The extra tension you do manually should even it out.

Honestly though I don't think that a take up system can realistically stretch the vinyl while it's on a liner. That's a long shot in my opinion cause as said we do manually pull the take up system to even out both sides on a printer that has a sensor based take up.

My images weren't uploaded last time for some reason, here's again:




These don't illustrate it all too well but it's hard doing them properly when you can't back off far enough to capture the hand from a different angle. Basically you grab the media in the middle pull it over the heater and then pull it down the heater towards the center of the printer. Hope that makes sense.

 

[mgieske]

Not sure why you'd investigate the printer if the prints line up on a table prior to application. Are you allowing the prints to outgass prior to lamination? If not, lamming your ecosol prints too fast will get you softer material that may easily stretch. Weights shouldn't be necessary on any install.

 

[4R Graphics]

If I read the post right you line it up on the table and it lines up so if its not lining up on the trailer you are stretching it.

Welcome to the world of wraps linning panels sucks.

Anyways first off dont put any weight but the weight of the vinyl and backing paper on the graphic.

Second try not to pull or stretch as you apply the film (if your doing it right 90% of the wrap will not need any kind of heat or pressure ie streching to apply it)

It really is the hardest thing to learn (next to good bumpers) in the wrap install how to apply with minimal strech.

On most vehicles I like to run a horizontal seam and stick them together in the shop and then apply one big panel.
it all depends on your abilities, number of people available and skill level.


Keep it up one day you will notice that most of the stuff you have problems with or take longer than you think should well wont take that long or be a problem any more.

Practice practrice practice

 

[Jester1167]

I doubt it has anything to do with the printer shrinking the panels.
you're most likely slightly skewing the panels or over stretching when pulling the backing paper off or something of the sorts.

+1

If you put tension on the panels as you install you'll need to be consistent with every panel. If your using 3M or Avery air egress vinyl start your panel toward the top (same place on each panel) and work your way up. Then peel all of the bottom and let it relax for a second with out any tension. Tack it at the bottom and check alignment. Having to stretch to line up is easier than shrinking.

Once you start adjusting panels to make them line up, the subsequent ones get harder and harder to line up. Consistency from panel to panel is the key.

 

[jasonx]

If your second panel is starting to be slightly lower then the applied panel use a triangle to bring them back into alignment. Justin Pate demonstrates this in one of his videos. Basically pull that side of the panel upwards and apply it slightly. You will have excess vinyl between the two points of vinyl already applied. Then heat that vinyl it will shrink and apply it. You're back on track. You need to spot the misalignment early so you dont have to lift the panel to the point you have so much excess vinyl to heat and shrink.

 

[xxtoni]

I was under the impression that they don't line up well on the table either ?

If they line up on the table perfectly but don't when you apply them it's clearly an issue with the application, that's a no brainer.

 

[biggmann]

Some days they line up on the table and some days they don't, that has to be uneven tension from the take-up roll. On the panels not lining up I think its a matter of us stretching it as we apply. We are usually in a rush so we don't give the film a chance to off gas so that needs to change as well.