Window Perf on Store Front

[SwinkCreative]

Hello,

I'm creating some window perf graphics for a local salon's front windows. I have all of the artwork ready to go - but I'm not sure on how much bleed I need to add before sending it off to the printer. My boyfriend is new to installation process - so I want to make this as easy as I can for him to install.

Any advice on the amount of bleed or any advice in window perf installation itself (tools etc) would be appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[1leonchen]

0.25-0.5 inches depending on the window lenght. thats only for the sides wher the window mullion is.

 

[WrapGuy10]

Basically zero bleed. Measure exact and trim slightly less than your measurement. Usually the terribly curling perf jobs you see are because people wrap right over the seals and leave them. Saw one just yesterday, wrapped right over the seal nearly onto the pillar lol. Didn't even bother to bust out a blade and trim at all.

 

[ikarasu]

I'd add .5 inch to the right, and bottom of the image. Cut the top and left to size -

Then you use the top/left as alignment, and the images should align perfectly (Providing you cut straight), and you'll have some leftover space on the right/bottom for miscalculations.

As for tips... That all depends on how experienced he is. Is this his first install? Are the graphics going to be laminated? If this is his first time doing an install, get some cheap blank material and let him practice. Or hopefully, go along with someone who knows what they're doing.

Window perf is probably the easiest vinyl to install, especially if theres no laminate.... However stuff still can/does go wrong, and while everyone does need to start somewhere, you don't want to look incompetent infront of the customer. So if this is the first time he's ever installing window graphics... practice. Print some advertisements for your car and throw them on, if he can get that right, he's ready to do it on customers!

 

[boxerbay]

Measure the glass faces not from aluminum to aluminum or else it will sit on the rubber gasket. Glass face. Exact measurement. When it gets trimmed you will lose about 1/8 each side which will be perfect and easy to install without hitting the rubber gaskets and without having to trim on sight. Trimming on sight is tedious.

 

[GAC05]

Measure the glass faces not from aluminum to aluminum or else it will sit on the rubber gasket. Glass face. Exact measurement. When it gets trimmed you will lose about 1/8 each side which will be perfect and easy to install without hitting the rubber gaskets and without having to trim on sight. Trimming on sight is tedious.

You guys must have better contractors down there. We are lucky to get any two windows in the same building square.
We overprint and trim back so there is a 1/8 to 3/16 gap all around.
We do commercial window tinting so trimming is pretty easy using a block and the window gasket/frame to keep it uniform.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[WrapGuy10]

Trimming on site opens the door to error in my opinion. I'm always going to get a nice perfect line on the table. On the glass outside, another story.

 

[ikarasu]

I've never had a problem with trimming on site. It's not hard, if you have a steady hand...and in this business, you need a steady hand!

Could always bring a straight ruler also, if you really, really need to. We just rest our hand on the side of the window and cut... Its always straight with no gaps. I think in the hundreds of windows We've done this year, there was once when we slipped and cut a chunk out of the perf.... which we just put back on the window and replaced. It was like an inch cut on the edge...wasnt even noticeable after we fixed it.


More tips:

If you're using laminate and get a bubble, do NOT use a knife. 90% of the windows around here, I see huge slit marks from people popping bubbles. Bring a pin... a pin will get all the air out, and you wont be able to notice it at much, if at all. First install, I imagine you'll get bubbles! Other than that.... Take some pics and post once the jobs done!

 

[lgroth]

I usually go slightly under so I don't have to trim on site (if I can get out and measure them myself), if I have to add bleed it's 1/4-1/2" then trim 1/8" or so in from the seals if I have do it on site. We got one job doing perfs that are changed regularly after the previous company sliced the heck out of the glass seals while trimming the perfs... Water got in, froze and destroyed a couple of windows. One good piece of advice is NEVER put a blade to the seal!

 

[Baz]

I trim about 1/8" all around as well. Makes it easier on site to just position and install IMO.

 

[Dennis422]

While on the perf install I have a quick question (Sorry to highjack)
What would be the lowest outside temperature you would install a perf on an outdoor facing widow or doors?

 

[ams]

Make sure you have exact measurements, then make each piece 1/4" wider and taller. So that it has 1/8" more on each side. Any more than that and it'll be a nightmare to put on. I once had 1" over and fought with it for a long time, never doing that again.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

While on the perf install I have a quick question (Sorry to highjack)
What would be the lowest outside temperature you would install a perf on an outdoor facing widow or doors?

I've done a few small perf jobs in sub-freezing/just above freezing temperatures. It's like you're trying to lay down a brittle, easily ripped, thin sheet of plastic with fingers that barely bend. It sucks, and it's a bit more difficult, but I never got any call backs for them and they looked just fine when I drove by days/weeks/months later.

 

[eahicks]

Make sure you have exact measurements, then make each piece 1/4" wider and taller. So that it has 1/8" more on each side. Any more than that and it'll be a nightmare to put on. I once had 1" over and fought with it for a long time, never doing that again.

I disagree with this so much, when installing on a typical storefront with mullions between windows. Even 1/8" wider makes the install difficult, as the edge will always buckle in on you. Make them exact size or leave a gap of up to 1/8". Then you can peel back the top couple inches of paper, adhere the top and the whole thing will lay flat inside between the mullions. From a distance you do not notice the gaps. This also makes it easier to seal the edges if you need to.

 

[bannertime]

I disagree with this so much, when installing on a typical storefront with mullions between windows. Even 1/8" wider makes the install difficult, as the edge will always buckle in on you. Make them exact size or leave a gap of up to 1/8". Then you can peel back the top couple inches of paper, adhere the top and the whole thing will lay flat inside between the mullions. From a distance you do not notice the gaps. This also makes it easier to seal the edges if you need to.

Got to agree with that. The gaskets are always greasy and dusty and will contaminate the adhesive causing the edges to fail before you even leave the job. You'd only see the gaps between perf and gasket from the inside anyway.

 

[ams]

I disagree with this so much, when installing on a typical storefront with mullions between windows. Even 1/8" wider makes the install difficult, as the edge will always buckle in on you. Make them exact size or leave a gap of up to 1/8". Then you can peel back the top couple inches of paper, adhere the top and the whole thing will lay flat inside between the mullions. From a distance you do not notice the gaps. This also makes it easier to seal the edges if you need to.

You misunderstand, every perf you lay down, you need to trim it to fit. I am not saying leave the 1/4" on it, of course it will peel and not lay down on the rubber. But the rubber and even mullions are not always straight and I've had some so crooked it was 1" off by the time you got to the bottom. If you did exact, you are counting on the window person doing a 100% job. Not possible.

So have enough bleed to save your butt, but not enough to cause install issues. Then trim it out at the end.

 

[ikarasu]

Lets agree everyone has their own method. No need to argue about whats right / wrong. Just because I like to have a bleed and trim, doesn't mean everyone who doesn't do it is doing it wrong. You need to find out whats best for you. If the customers happy...then the customers happy.

I personally would rather spend an extra 1 minute and trim on site after it's installed. I've never cut into the gasket... never had it lift, and never ran into a problem. It takes me literally 1 more minute per window.

Now, you might not be as good / fast at cutting, which is ok. I suck at cutting with a straight edge. I can never get it perfectly square. Which would mean once I install it onto the window, the gap will get slightly bigger and bigger...which would annoy me to no end, whether it bugged the customer or not. Each way has its benefits / downfalls, as an installer... you pick which way suits you, or you take a little bit of both, and devise your own way. I got a guy at work who constantly criticizes me about how I weed vinyl. Every-single-time he sees me weeding, He tells me I'm doing it wrong... to take out all the insides on the "o"s, and "a"s, and every other letter, and then peel around the letter... makes "Cleanup easier" since you just stick the smaller pieces to the outside of the vinyl ,and it peels up with the rest of it. I hate it... I find it easier to peel all around the outside first, and then its so easy to see which letters need to be peeled further. Different installers...different preferences.

If the customer is happy, and your happy, and the product isn't falling off the windows...there is no wrong way.

 

[Behrmon]

Taste great!

 

[Jester1167]

Oversize the prints by 2". By that, I mean 1" on all sides. Peel 6" on top and tack the perf 1" on the top mullion and centered. Then peel the whole thing and center side to side on the bottom. Sometime you have to adjust the top to get the graphic to look like glass. Once positioned cut the longest 2 side completely and squeegee from the center up and down until the perf gets tight, then release the tension and install the rest. Tuck to the rubber and then trim with the knife at 45 deg and slightly tilted inwards and towards the window or away from the rubber.

No one surveys the windows perfectly, they are never perfectly square, and the rubber often waves. By over sizing the prints you have added a margin of error and you use the mullions to keep the graphic from pre-tacking. This also helps you align big window jobs because you can leave the perf on the 2" mullions and line the next print up to the first.

I know this is a personal preference but 95% of all the national accounts print this way, and I bet it's for a reason.

 

[ams]

If you use your method, and oversize, yes you need to trim it to fit.

If you use the slightly undersized method that everyone else is talking about, you line it up, install, and move to next window. Gaskets are never straight or even, so trimming to them just creates more opportunity for error. Not to mention fighting with the mullions like eahicks said.

But then the perf doesn't cover the window 100% if you undersize it, then you can see through it. That happened once was about 3/8" gap and the customer was pissed. I won't do that again. That's like etch glass on a window, if they want a block out for privacy and you leave a gap so someone can peek through it, they are going to reject it.

 

[Reveal1]

Set expectations

But then the perf doesn't cover the window 100% if you undersize it, then you can see through it. That happened once was about 3/8" gap and the customer was pissed. I won't do that again. That's like etch glass on a window, if they want a block out for privacy and you leave a gap so someone can peek through it, they are going to reject it.

I usually find that customers appreciate knowing the pluses/minuses of using a particular product, and will usually be understanding if they know of potential issues beforehand. What works for us is first setting expectations that perf is not for total privacy nor total sun control. We always leave 1/4" clear all around and tape with edge seal tape. We prefer to precut panels to size - but we obsess on accurate site surveys so sizing is seldom an issue. To extend life we ALWAYS use edge tape, as the most likely failure point will be edge curling. When the sun is low in the sky, you still get significant glare through perf. Bright indoor lighting will wash out graphics at night and allow more visibility fom exterior to interior. Also let them know that it is a short to medium term application. While we have installs out there three years or more, we tell customers to expect 2-3 years at most (if laminated). Removal after 1 year can be challenging. For longer life, the Panavue interior product is good as long as windows are not heavily tinted. For lamination we use several light coats of spray so that we dont' fill the holes. Let them know that rain may distort the outward view on exterior applied product.

 

[lgroth]

The place we used to do them for had 3 locations and changed out their windows almost monthly, most windows were about 8X10 foot. -30 degrees in the middle of Wisconsin and we'd be out there changing them. PAIN IN THE....! But it can be done, and they actually stayed down. I will say they do go on easier than they come off in the cold. It was a cell phone company, and thank god they got bought out by one of the big dogs before winter set in again, never thought I'd be so happy to lose a customer.

While on the perf install I have a quick question (Sorry to highjack)
What would be the lowest outside temperature you would install a perf on an outdoor facing widow or doors?