Advice for shop expansion

[Signed Out]

Finally got the building permit...

Adding 80'x40x20' celling addition to our current 56'x36'x12' shop. We also have rented a 65'x25' bay next door for the last 13 years for larger vehicle installs, won't need to do that anymore.

Addition will have 2 install bays, a lobby/reception area, room for a packaging/shippng area, some room for expansion(printer/cnc?) and my own private office...

I'll probably chime in here on a few different subjects along the way. For starters I'm posting sketches of my current shop layout and what I'm thinking for the new shop layout. Here I'm very open to any suggestions or comments.

One topic on my mind right now is what does everyone think is the best floor is for an install bay? Current shop is and new shop will be concrete floors. I epoxied the existing floors 13 years ago with Sherwin Williams commercial grade 2 part epoxy, think it was rs-1000 or something like that. Has held up great. But is there anything that vinyl doesn't stick to? It's a pain to keep clean, I think maybe because we have a broom brushed finish to the concrete floor? And once some vinyl or tape is stuck, it collects dirt from tires.. I had been thinking about polishing and sealing the concrete instead like at lowes or home depot. Maybe that'd be easier to keep clean, less likely for vinyl and tape to stick to?

Have also considered those rubber garage floor tiles, would be nicer to walk stand on, but we also use ladders/ rolling scafolding.

Or maybe installing a tire bath in front of the overhead doors would help keep the dirt out?

I would also like to install some floor drains in the install area for those wintery vehicle meltdowns.

 

[gnubler]

There's a whole separate thread about shop floors, might be helpful: https://www.signs101.com/threads/shop-floors-whats-yours-like-what-works.93074/

 

[Notarealsignguy]

My 2 cents. I'd make both doors 14 wide. For floors I'd probably go with epoxy and a little non-skid. Polished and straight epoxy is slick and you don't want an employee or customer to fall on any water that is tracked in. Floor drains are nice if they are connected to the sewer and the city allows it. On septic they can be problematic when you go to sell and they do an environmental survey. They will likely require a phase 2 to check for contamination in the drain field. Just something to consider.

 

[Gino]

Why the big doors, if you don't have the room for big rigs ?? Also, you might have a problem insurance-wise, having customers entering & exiting in a 'working' environment, unless you keep those doors locked.

 

[Signed Out]

My 2 cents. I'd make both doors 14 wide. For floors I'd probably go with epoxy and a little non-skid. Polished and straight epoxy is slick and you don't want an employee or customer to fall on any water that is tracked in. Floor drains are nice if they are connected to the sewer and the city allows it. On septic they can be problematic when you go to sell and they do an environmental survey. They will likely require a phase 2 to check for contamination in the drain field. Just something to consider.

Door size is another decision I've been going back and forth about. The smaller bay, which is about 35' deep in this sketch would mostly be smaller vehicles, other bay for large trucks and 54' trailers. Originally thought a smaller door for the smaller bay just because they are easier to open. Our current small install bay has a 10'x10' door. The bay we rent is a 12'x14' and a little tight for the big stuff. But I'm also thinking, why not get powered overhead doors, would be able to bring a remote door lift when swapping out vehicles. But the powered ones are slower? Letting more heat/ac out while bigger doors are open? I wonder if you could get 2 regular sized pickups in and out of the smaller bay with a 14' wide door fairly easily vs a 12' wide door?

Floor drains, we are on septic, I own 4 acres here and I don't plan on selling. I'm pretty pumped about putting these in and sweeping some water into them. In reality though, I don't think the amount of water that'd run through them would be a significant amount? Currently a few inches rung into a mop bucket is what I get on a "wet floor" day.

I don't really have a slippery floor issue with the epoxy now, on the broom brush finished floor. I do notice my garage floor at home with epoxy coat is slicker though. How about the polished and sealed floors at lowes, home depos, etc? They must not be too slippery when wet? Or they just get those wet floor signs out quick enough? But how often do they need to be resealed? Would probably have to polish the stuck on vinyl off to reseal, and might be slippery. IDK prob end up with the same broom brushed epoxy coated concrete but curious if there is a better option. I think adding non skid just makes it harder to keep clean?

 

[Signed Out]

Why the big doors, if you don't have the room for big rigs ?? Also, you might have a problem insurance-wise, having customers entering & exiting in a 'working' environment, unless you keep those doors locked.

The new addition is 80'x40' 20' high ceilings. It is plenty big enough for big rigs, so I'm confused. In the sketch I show a line where 60' from overhead door is, that's the area that will be dedicated for install. Largest trailer I've done in 13 years was 54'. Unless you are concerned about the width of the bays? Should be plenty of space for a rolling scaffolding to get around a trailer with something else in the other bay.

The "new entrance" will open up to the "lobby/reception" room so I'm not sure what you are referrring to there. And currently my customers do enter/exit in a working area, so the new setup will be an improvement on that.

 

[Gino]

We built our bay at 20' x 62', with another 48' beyond that but with only a 11' ceiling. That's a 110' long building and we have doors at both ends and we can fit several in at a time. That's really tight to have tables, shelves or whatever kinda storage you might want to use in there, while still having room for ladders or scaffolding in there, too.

Being from * I wasn't really sure of where you were from, but here, for insurance reasons, customers may not go beyond a vestibule, reception area or office, according to what kinda insurance you have. Again, your original setup would've been illegal in these parts, too.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Door size is another decision I've been going back and forth about. The smaller bay, which is about 35' deep in this sketch would mostly be smaller vehicles, other bay for large trucks and 54' trailers. Originally thought a smaller door for the smaller bay just because they are easier to open. Our current small install bay has a 10'x10' door. The bay we rent is a 12'x14' and a little tight for the big stuff. But I'm also thinking, why not get powered overhead doors, would be able to bring a remote door lift when swapping out vehicles. But the powered ones are slower? Letting more heat/ac out while bigger doors are open? I wonder if you could get 2 regular sized pickups in and out of the smaller bay with a 14' wide door fairly easily vs a 12' wide door?

Floor drains, we are on septic, I own 4 acres here and I don't plan on selling. I'm pretty pumped about putting these in and sweeping some water into them. In reality though, I don't think the amount of water that'd run through them would be a significant amount? Currently a few inches rung into a mop bucket is what I get on a "wet floor" day.

I don't really have a slippery floor issue with the epoxy now, on the broom brush finished floor. I do notice my garage floor at home with epoxy coat is slicker though. How about the polished and sealed floors at lowes, home depos, etc? They must not be too slippery when wet? Or they just get those wet floor signs out quick enough? But how often do they need to be resealed? Would probably have to polish the stuck on vinyl off to reseal, and might be slippery. IDK prob end up with the same broom brushed epoxy coated concrete but curious if there is a better option. I think adding non skid just makes it harder to keep clean?

I'd get a trowel finished floor and seal it or just leave it as is. We have an outbuilding with broom finished concrete and it's about impossible to keep clean. Inside our shop is smooth and can run a floor machine over it, dry mop or wet mop it. The new rollup doors should be easy to open if they set the tension right. Floor drains would be nice it's just something that inspectors look at and wonder what all has went down them. A lot of industrial properties by us have monitoring wells at their drain fields, not sure why they do and we don't but I'm not about to ask.

 

[Signed Out]

We built our bay at 20' x 62', with another 48' beyond that but with only a 11' ceiling. That's a 110' long building and we have doors at both ends and we can fit several in at a time. That's really tight to have tables, shelves or whatever kinda storage you might want to use in there, while still having room for ladders or scaffolding in there, too.

Being from * I wasn't really sure of where you were from, but here, for insurance reasons, customers may not go beyond a vestibule, repetition area or office, according to what kinda insurance you have. Again, your original setup would've been illegal in these parts, too.

So your bay is 62'x20 and mine will be 60-80'x 20'. And really if I build the office/lobby where it's shown in the sketch it will be 22' wide for the larger bay. I plan on putting a workbench/ wrap tools/supplies storage along the south side of the lobby wall and ladders and other hangables on east wall of office/lobby. Scaffolding can kind of float around be pushed into a corner when not in use.
I would love to put a door on the other end of the larger bay but there isn't good enough access to that corner of the building to be able to pull anything in and out.

I plan on building office/lobby with 10' walls and be able to store stuff up top. The back 40'x20 of the addition is room for growth. Plus I'll be freeing up some room in the old shop, might put a cnc in there at somepoint.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Also, you might have a problem insurance-wise, having customers entering & exiting in a 'working' environment, unless you keep those doors locked.

and then you have a problem with the fire marshall. You can't win.
We have no customer signs and come insurance inspection time, put up plastic chains for the dog and pony show. So far so good.
A few years ago, our rooster followed the inspector around and wouldn't stop crowing. A bit embarrassing but a good distraction.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

A drive through bay would be nice even if you couldnt drive all the way out. Might be a good spot for your receiving if they could back a their trucks up to the door to load/unload rather than carrying everything through the lobby.

 

[Gino]

So your bay is 62'x20 and mine will be 60-80'x 20'. And really if I build the office/lobby where it's shown in the sketch it will be 22' wide for the larger bay. I plan on putting a workbench/ wrap tools/supplies storage along the south side of the lobby wall and ladders and other hangables on east wall of office/lobby. Scaffolding can kind of float around be pushed into a corner when not in use.
I would love to put a door on the other end of the larger bay but there isn't good enough access to that corner of the building to be able to pull anything in and out.

I plan on building office/lobby with 10' walls and be able to store stuff up top. The back 40'x20 of the addition is room for growth. Plus I'll be freeing up some room in the old shop, might put a cnc in there at somepoint.

Kinda. Our truck bays are 20' x 110' w/11' ceilings for 48' and the back 62" at 16' high ceilings.

 

[Gino]

Hey, I'm not trying to tell ya what to do, but plan wisely as on 48' & 53' we get a little cramped. Now's the time to re-visit ideas and thoughts and maybe see into the future via others.

 

[JBurton]

I wouldn't worry about the weight of the doors, just add either a motor or chain drive. I have a 13'x16'W bay door at my CNC room, it takes all of 10 seconds to spool up and 5 to drop it. It's pretty effortless.
+1 for drive thru bay, not only would it likely help with insurance cost, peace of mind knowing nobody will be backing something out is wonderful.

 

[Signed Out]

Hey, I'm not trying to tell ya what to do, but plan wisely as on 48' & 53' we get a little cramped. Now's the time to re-visit ideas and thoughts and maybe see into the future via others.

I see your point with the benches/ladders etc. you have lining your walls. I'm hoping that having the 2 bays side by side, both bays kinda share the middle space between them, maybe a skinny table, or rolling tool carts, instead of lining the outside walls with 2-4' of stuff. Plus a work bench on south side of lobby wall. Also our shop doesn't do any type of sign installations, we only manufacture and install vehicle graphics and manufacture various sign types but not installs, no channel letter or electrical signs at all. So we may have less "stuff" to line our install bay walls with... for now.

I do appreciate the feedback, reason I posted this thread. What is set in stone at this point (after 1.5 year building permit process) is the 80'x40'x20' shell and the door locations. I also have to keep all the electrical in the addition (outlets/light switches/ and sub panel) at 9' above my shop floor as we are located in 100 year flood plain. Was that or raise the grade 4-5' and not be level with existing shop. So pull chains/motion sensors for lights, and a few recoiling lead cords... at least until CO. But the office and lobby area is not included in the permit, something I'll tackle afterwards, but want to plan ahead.

Am also considering putting a fold away wall to cut the larger bay in half. Would probably butt up to office and will have to build permanent wall above office in line with rolling to essentially have (2) 40x40s. We do probably 20 something 48'-54' trailers per year so most of the time that larger bay will be half empty. So for heat/ac costs might make sense to do that. Will definitely be putting some celling fans and a propane heater on each end. We are in NY cold winters/ hot muggy summers.

 

[Signed Out]

I wouldn't worry about the weight of the doors, just add either a motor or chain drive. I have a 13'x16'W bay door at my CNC room, it takes all of 10 seconds to spool up and 5 to drop it. It's pretty effortless.
+1 for drive thru bay, not only would it likely help with insurance cost, peace of mind knowing nobody will be backing something out is wonderful.

 

[Signed Out]

Another rendering zoomed out a little bit.. There really isn't good access to the north side of addition, blocked by a row of trees ( which could be cleared), but we also lease the area directly above it for trailer/tanker storage. This google earth image doesn't show many there when image was taken but it's full now. I had also tried to figure a way to get maybe a 3rd/4th overhead doors on the east and west side a but just seems clunky?

 

[ProSignTN]

I vote for the extra door. Even if you can't pull a 53' all the way through the door it appears there would be enough room to back at least a straight truck down beside the building for deliveries or loading. The extra door would be useful in the mild season, depending on your location, Could save your more on AC in the spring & fall than extra heat costs in the winter. Anybody ever pull a semi in and have it belch a cloud of black smoke. That extra door would be real helpful in airing the place out. By all means, insulated panel door. I had a shop for seven years that feature four 14x16's and a 12x12 roll ups. When the wind blew they rattled. In a 15 mph wind, I couldn't play the stereo loud enough not to hear them. Plus, I couldn't heat the shop in the cold nor keep it cool in the summer.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

The extra door for crossflow, forgot that one. It's night and day difference in the heat. Signed Out, we have an insulated dividing curtain with a walk through strip curtain door in our shop and run A/C in half of it. Keeps the area clean and we can open it up if we need the space. I can DM you some pics and where we got it from if it's something you want to look at. The non-insulated is quite a bit cheaper but it's not terribly expensive either way. I think we paid around $4-5k for 20' tall, 40' long and then another 16x16 that we put in front of our overhead door. You can't hear our overhead door banging around with that in front of it. The track is mounted with beam clamps but there are a bunch of different ways to do it. If I ever got a router I'd put up a body shop curtain around it rather than make a special room for it.

 

[netsol]

while you are doing it, do it right.
pre-run network wiring, cable tv wire, PUT IN ENOUGH ELECTRIC OUTLETS ( i know local ,codes require alot, but plan out where equipment is going to go. you never allow enough

IF IT WILL BE IMPORTANT TO YOU, run compressed air lines, IF MONEY ALLOWS, put in a decent sized air compressor (i would add a refrigerated dryer, so all air is CLEAN & DRY)

FOR GODS SAKE, ADD ENOUGH LIGHTING!!!
( i seem to be getting blinder, as i get older)

don't forget the outside/perimeter a good friend has a 90,000 sq ft building with no water or outside ac outlets