CET, Gerber, Roland Flatbed Question

[ams]

So on the topic of flatbed printers, this has been brought up many times.

I'd like to know your guys experience with each if you own any of these. I am leaning towards getting a CET color flatbed, but nearly impossible to find a used or demo model. I know nothing about CET.
I was considering a Gerber IonX or Gerber CAT, I know the CAT used to be top of the line back in the day and I know that Gerber is no longer doing much with flatbeds but I asked if they still service them and they said yes.
For Roland, I really wanted the new LEJ-640FT true flatbed. However I've seen some people complain about vertical banding with no way of fixing it, however I've seen other people say that they have never had any
banding issues with it. Also impossible to find used or demo models.

So I am curious about the experiences of each them if you own one or used to have one. Thanks

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

We have a CET 250H. Took nearly a year and multiple techs out here to get it running "right". It doesn't print nearly the speed they advertise or we were told when we were sold the machine.
Every environmental factor will mess with your printer. The tech specs say 40-60% humidity, try 55+ constantly, any less and the heads plug up mid print and you get drop out. Thinking it will print at a decent speed? forget it. Techs set the machine up for a .5 pass when they set it up and after tons of drop out issues we were told we are running it too fast and we need to slow it down to .33 screen (the slowest option of the 4 print speeds - .33, .50, .75, 1.0).
We were told the more we run it the better, but on long runs (8-12 hours of non stop run) we were having to stop every 35/45 min to clean the print heads and get all the nozzles firing again.
We are also not a fan of the belt drive system, if it wasn't for the amount of banners we run we would be kicking ourselves for getting the hybrid. Running 4x8 sheets of coro 2 sided with any kind of registration you can forget about it... i cut sheets in half and run them that way to get them close.
The "consumables" that we were told about ever person we talked with had a different story for replacement times/ frequency. After we got the machine installed those times all got cut in half and replacing 12+ filters multiple times a year at hundreds of dollars per filter adds up a lot compared to what we were told.

If we had it all to do over again, the owner here would spend the extra cash and get a better known brand like mimaki or roland and get the true flatbed.
Add on top that the supplier that sold us the CET now no longer supports it and we are in a scramble to find a new supplier for inks and other "consumables"

All in all, depending what your doing, make sure you go with a brand that you can trust... go run the printers, get your hands on all 3, and talk to people who have owned them a while, not sales people. Talk to the production guys who run the printers every day and get the down and dirty on what the printers really are and what they really can do.

Good luck

 

[Ditchmiester]

If you are looking for an entry level Flatbed. I would look at the JFX200. We are hoping to add one this quarter. We currently have the smaller UJF-6042 and it is fantastic moving up to the 4x8 will be a great addition for us.

 

[rjssigns]

On the subject of flatbeds. Am I the only one that finds it odd that the "creator" of CET has abandoned CET and started Vanguard? Seems he couldn't say enough good things about CET. Next thing he's on here saying he's started/with Vanguard.

Just sayin...

 

[Gino]

The main question you hafta ask yourself is how are you going to use this machine ?? Certain flatbeds perform better in different arenas.

Your areas you must address first is/are....

• What's your budget ??
• What area [square footage] do you have to run such a machine ??
• Do you have a viable way to get one into your shop without breaking down walls or doors ??
• Do you have the power source needed to run one ??
• You need access to a tech person who can be there quickly, if you aren't mechanically inclined. Therefore buying one from a source nearby will help.
• How often will it be running ??
• Do you want white in the equation ??
• What particular substrates do you wanna use ??

Otherwise, you're just asking a random question with no real plausible answers.

 

[ChrisN]

We have a CET Q5-1000 flatbed with 3 heads (KC+MY+WW), and overall I am happy with it. We run our printer with humidity 35-50% with no problems. The ink is sensitive to static, though, so we ended up getting the static eliminator bars which takes care of a lot of issues.

At production speed, it will print a 4x8 in 10-12 minutes. There are also faster print modes that I use for coroplast yard signs, which will print a sheet in 6-7 minutes. Also, we have the capability to add another 3 heads to double print speeds.

Print heads clog every now and then from dirt or misdirected ink, but a quick cleaning always takes care of any missing nozzles. I have not noticed any correlation between printer usage and nozzle clogs.

If you do want a hybrid, I would recommend looking at an 8' wide printer. That way you can send 4x8 sheets through the short way, and improve double-sided accuracy. When we replaced our 65" hybrid, one of the reasons we went with a flatbed was because of problems we were having with double-sided prints.

The ink filters are rather expensive, but do not have to be replaced very often. CET recommends every 6 months or 13 liters of ink, whichever comes first. We didn't run through 13 liters of ink during the first 6 months, so I just replaced them a few months ago at the 6 month mark.

The only part of the printer that I have had issues with is the negative pressure. The regulators are very finicky, and do wear out rather quickly. They are very inexpensive, though, so it doesn't cost much to replace them.


P.S. I also find it odd about Vanguard. Their printers do have some cool features. The thing is, though, Vanguard doesn't have a direct competitor to the Q5-1000 printer, so I don't regret getting a CET.

 

[artbot]

CET, AOjet, and Flora are all the same printer. parts are so cheap if you buy the aftermarket chinese version, they are practically free. the $100 filter mentioned costs about $6. ink pumps are about $12 each, etc. the CET i had for a year and a half encountered a cyan issue that could not be figured out which contributed greatly to the failure of a partnership. don't buy a printer brand unless you can hardly find a single unsatisfied customer. also, when working with CET it was a comedy of errors when order a part. maybe that's fixed now but you couldn't help but laugh when opening the box when it was the 10th "mis-sent" part.

is it a bad printer? from what i read over these years you have about a 15%+ chance of getting a problem machine. one printer that does meet the satisfaction requirements is the HP FB's. just get that one. don't wonder how the print looks, don't ask how fast it is. just ask, "does it work". that's about how sad the flatbed industry is ... does it work, without costing $250,000~!

 

[nate]

On the subject of flatbeds. Am I the only one that finds it odd that the "creator" of CET has abandoned CET and started Vanguard? Seems he couldn't say enough good things about CET. Next thing he's on here saying he's started/with Vanguard.

Just sayin...

Your facts are off. Dave Cich was not the creator of CET. He was brought in by the CET owner to market and sell the machines. He did a fantastic job making the company real-- some quarters they were even placing more machines than the big guys. That's pretty impressive.

Last year there was a change at CET and Dave decided it was time to go at it alone. He started Vanguard Digital with some of the other people from CET which leads us up to now. The two machines he's come out with under the Vanguard name are worth taking a look at.

 

[nate]

P.S. I also find it odd about Vanguard. Their printers do have some cool features. The thing is, though, Vanguard doesn't have a direct competitor to the Q5-1000 printer, so I don't regret getting a CET.

Vanguard's new machine based on Kyocera heads is significantly better than the Q5 in terms of speed and quality in a 5' x 10'.

 

[nate]

CET, AOjet, and Flora are all the same printer. parts are so cheap if you buy the aftermarket chinese version, they are practically free. the $100 filter mentioned costs about $6. ink pumps are

This used to be the case, but several years ago CET broke out of that fold.

 

[ams]

I plan on doing many runs of 4' X 8' 4mm coroplast sheets, some aluminum signs and some 1/2" wood signs. I prefer a 4" height printable area, but the main thing is the quality, I'd like a 1440 X 1440 if at all possible, if not than 1440 X 720 is ok.

 

[Gino]

I plan on doing many runs of 4' X 8' 4mm coroplast sheets, some aluminum signs and some 1/2" wood signs. I prefer a 4" height printable area, but the main thing is the quality, I'd like a 1440 X 1440 if at all possible, if not than 1440 X 720 is ok.

Then, you are pretty much stuck with a pure flatbed. No hybrids will take on wood without a lotta trouble with warping or building jigs, unless you're talking rather small pieces. Make sure the machine passes the scratch test on Cor-X.... especially, if you intend full bleeds.

 

[artbot]

1440 x 1440! Holy flatbed dpi Batman!

a coro' sign should be blasted out at 360 x 360.

 

[ams]

I wouldn't give a customer 360 DPI, that is pretty poor quality. My Roland VP-540i does 1440.

Yeah I need a true flatbed, I hear it's best to get a gantry system.

 

[artbot]

i've had both. if you want to do piles of coro' the hybrid is much faster. it will eat it up. pros and cons for both. i prefer the belt.

 

[nate]

I wouldn't give a customer 360 DPI, that is pretty poor quality. My Roland VP-540i does 1440.

Yeah I need a true flatbed, I hear it's best to get a gantry system.

To each his own, but I think you're doing way too much.

 

[ChrisN]

Vanguard's new machine based on Kyocera heads is significantly better than the Q5 in terms of speed and quality in a 5' x 10'.

But it's probably not significantly better in terms of price. We haven't maxed out our printer yet as far as usage, and we can still add another 3 heads to double the speed when that time comes. That's one of the reasons we chose CET because of the upgradeability.

I plan on doing many runs of 4' X 8' 4mm coroplast sheets, some aluminum signs and some 1/2" wood signs. I prefer a 4" height printable area, but the main thing is the quality, I'd like a 1440 X 1440 if at all possible, if not than 1440 X 720 is ok.

If you get a printer that prints with the flutes rather than across the flutes, you can print at faster speeds, since the flutes hide the banding to a certain extent. I rip everything at 600 dpi. Normal production is at 6 pass, which will show no banding on 1/8" PVC. However, on coroplast, 4 pass looks just as good as 6 pass on smooth substrates. I print most coroplast at 3 or even 2 pass since nobody cares about a photo quality yard sign...

 

[ams]

Well I was originally looking at spending $85,000 hoping for a 5' X 10' bed, but I can't afford that right now or without the help of an investor. So I am seeking a used model in the $30 - $40k range.

 

[artbot]

is everyone getting the sinking feeling (respectfully) that a flatbed printer is not the thing to start with? whether an 85k or a 30k machine, it's not about the machine. it's about the business as an apparatus. think of your business as a "machine". the printer supports the business. a printer does not create a business. i'd say that a machine is never needed until jobbing out projects is not keeping up with flow. many printers have been bought by new business to only sit idle for months, doing a job here and there sucking up resources that should be spent on marketing.

so, for each product you plan to offer, do you "know the ropes" of each of these markets? there's a few hints here and there that you might be a bit (or a lot) green. the high dpi, the massive head height (most flatbed printers rarely print past .25" high, occasionally .375" high, very rarely past .5" high).

also, depending on the used printer, do you know what a new head or a motor or a mirror for these machines cost? you might be shocked that a simple part can cost thousands depending on the brand.

 

[LarryB]

CET, AOjet, and Flora are all the same printer. parts are so cheap if you buy the aftermarket chinese version, they are practically free. the $100 filter mentioned costs about $6. ink pumps are about $12 each, etc. the CET i had for a year and a half encountered a cyan issue that could not be figured out which contributed greatly to the failure of a partnership. don't buy a printer brand unless you can hardly find a single unsatisfied customer. also, when working with CET it was a comedy of errors when order a part. maybe that's fixed now but you couldn't help but laugh when opening the box when it was the 10th "mis-sent" part.

is it a bad printer? from what i read over these years you have about a 15%+ chance of getting a problem machine. one printer that does meet the satisfaction requirements is the HP FB's. just get that one. don't wonder how the print looks, don't ask how fast it is. just ask, "does it work". that's about how sad the flatbed industry is ... does it work, without costing $250,000~!

I agree with the FB. I have had my HP FB500 for 3 years now and love it. Runs 8-10 hours a day with no issues. I print front/back all the time. Great machine.

 

[ams]

is everyone getting the sinking feeling (respectfully) that a flatbed printer is not the thing to start with? whether an 85k or a 30k machine, it's not about the machine. it's about the business as an apparatus. think of your business as a "machine". the printer supports the business. a printer does not create a business. i'd say that a machine is never needed until jobbing out projects is not keeping up with flow. many printers have been bought by new business to only sit idle for months, doing a job here and there sucking up resources that should be spent on marketing.

so, for each product you plan to offer, do you "know the ropes" of each of these markets? there's a few hints here and there that you might be a bit (or a lot) green. the high dpi, the massive head height (most flatbed printers rarely print past .25" high, occasionally .375" high, very rarely past .5" high).

also, depending on the used printer, do you know what a new head or a motor or a mirror for these machines cost? you might be shocked that a simple part can cost thousands depending on the brand.

What makes you think I am new in the business? I've been in the sign business for 9 years and have owned my current sign shop for 6 years. We are so flooded with work we can't keep up, I have 4 employees helping me, 1 receptionist, 2 installers and 1 fabricator. I am getting ready to expand and hire two additional employees and launch flatbed printing. So I have enough business to keep it running.