Contractor Woes - If its not in my quote am I liable for it?

[ams]

How about posting the guys name and company in case we don't want to deal with him?

 

[Gino]

Yeah, seeing how close you are to the OP, it could be a problem.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Thats tough but typically when you miss something you eat it and when unforseen things or additions come up you can add it. Ask him to show you where the address was in the plans. I wouldnt give credit if it wasnt in your bid. Sounds like you got stuck with a greedy PM that squeezes everyone for a bigger bonus.

Theses quoting bids come with a lot of fine print to be read BEFORE you even start reading the scope of work. Alternally, your quote should come with similar fine print stating about their proper verification of your quote (amounts, specs, etc...) and that any unspecified items/work and/or changes in the specs of their bid request after being awarded the job, those are extras. We even add that any removals (for credit) need our written approval (because it can sometimes affect your bulk buying costs).
I your case, and not knowing the fine print in your agreement, I would trade off his credit request for your missed item... Make the missed item for free but do not give a credit for something you never quoted on as it did not properly appear in the list.

The flip side to that is this: If you come back at him and tell him that you can't eat the cost, and he finds someone else, it's highly likely that they won't miss that part and he will have to pay more. I would try to negotiate for "split the difference" tactic.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

The flip side to that is this: If you come back at him and tell him that you can't eat the cost, and he finds someone else, it's highly likely that they won't miss that part and he will have to pay more. I would try to negotiate for "split the difference" tactic.

It doesn't work like that in contracting, they cant just go find someone else after awarding and starting a job. You also cant just walk off without being sued or having them go after your bond.

 

[Andy D]

TL/DR (too long didnt read) -
In my quote, i included for a set of dimensional letters that read 'reception' in actuality there were two sets of letters but my quote is specifically for one set. He brought it to my attention so I offered to change my quote to two sets. He replied back that I would have to eat the second set because it was in the plans. He is not wrong, they were in the plans, but I only quoted as one set. It was my error. he didnt catch my error. Am i technically liable for it or is he just strong-arming? I could provide him exactly whats in my quote and be technically correct. My gut tells me that if i read alllllll the fine print of my subcontract they have a nice workaround for this.

Fried Oyster, I have the exact same job & no, you are absolutely not responsible for items not in your bid.
For those who are saying that he/she is responsible, allow me to clarify what he/she is referring to: I bid several
large sign packages that are posted on a public site every month.
1st. many of the specs for the sign package are generic babble that is only there to cover their butts & was written years ago, the engineer or architect can't be bothered to put job specific info,they just copy and paste.
I still come across speck'd hand painted project identification signs.

2nd the specs almost alway conflict with the plans & I have never had a call or email returned when I asked for clarification.
3rd no sub-contractor is in anyway required to bid the whole package, about half of my bids don't include the signs I don't offer.
4th as a professional it is the contractors direct responsibility to look over every sub bid before bidding a job.
5th about half the bids I win end up being entirely different sign than what were spec'd

As I said, I send off sign package bids to all the contractors who are on the bidding list a few day before the bid date & the majority of those I'm bidding blind..
If a contractor ever told me I was responsible for his/her F-up it would be hard not to laugh in their face.

 

[Andy D]

Let me repeat, if you only bid half of the dimensional letters, saying the wrong thing, you are only responsible for half of the dimensional letters, saying the wrong thing, as you called them out.
The contractor is the only one that has the has legal responsibility for their bid, because they have a "certificate of good standing" & they know they f-ed up, so they're trying to con you into losing money.
it could be different in other states, but I don't believe so.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Fried Oyster, I have the exact same job & no, you are absolutely not responsible for items not in your bid.
For those who are saying that he/she is responsible, allow me to clarify what he/she is referring to: I bid several
large sign packages that are posted on a public site every month.
1st. many of the specs for the sign package are generic babble that is only there to cover their butts & was written years ago, the engineer or architect can't be bothered to put job specific info,they just copy and paste.
I still come across speck'd hand painted project identification signs.

2nd the specs almost alway conflict with the plans & I have never had a call or email returned when I asked for clarification.
3rd no sub-contractor is in anyway required to bid the whole package, about half of my bids don't include the signs I don't offer.
4th as a professional it is the contractors direct responsibility to look over every sub bid before bidding a job.
5th about half the bids I win end up being entirely different sign than what were spec'd

As I said, I send off sign package bids to all the contractors who are on the bidding list a few day before the bid date & the majority of those I'm bidding blind..
If a contractor ever told me I was responsible for his/her F-up it would be hard not to laugh in their face.

Was this bid as a supplier or a contractor? That would change things but it sounded like he was awarded as a contractor for a total furnish and install job? I agree that I wouldn't eat the contractors screw up but the mess up was on the sub not seeing the correct quantity.

 

[MikePro]

specs are one thing, and can be tweaked to cover the intent, or adjusted along the way for approved upcharges, but missing items & quantities are another.... and the bids are almost always on the package, not just a few items on the list you decide to pick/choose. if you don't make it in-house, you quote to outsource it and add it to your bid price.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Otherwise, I'd like to hear examples of how others haven't had to completely fulfill an awarded bid contract and walk-away with 100% payment.

 

[Andy D]

Sorry Mikepro, you're wrong... The contractor probably got several sign package bids, and many of them probably
picked and choose what signs they wanted to offer, if the contractor just went with the lowest bid without making sure
it was as required, that's 100% on them.

 

[MikePro]

well, then hopefully the OP will keep this thread updated with the results... because I believe you're giving the OP false hope, given the information provided.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

That isn't true at all. I have seen it many times where contractors have lost their ass because they screwed up quantities on a bid, it's a contract. My good friends dad lost his business over this same thing.

 

[Andy D]

Was this bid as a supplier or a contractor? That would change things but it sounded like he was awarded as a contractor for a total furnish and install job? I agree that I wouldn't eat the contractors screw up but the mess up was on the sub not seeing the correct quantity.

I'm sure as a supplier, you can't directly bid a project with out a contracting lic. you have to send the bid to the contractor or a sub-contractor... his sign package was likely a very small part of a million dollar project & the contractor could be bothered to do his due diligence for a small sign package.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Maybe it's different in signs then?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Lol, I sent in a bid to a construction company about 30 minutes ago. He replied back with "you missed a sign". I added it and email it back. Nice timing on this thread.

 

[Andy D]

That isn't true at all. I have seen it many times where contractors have lost their *** because they screwed up quantities on a bid, it's a contract. My good friends dad lost his business over this same thing.

Agreed, as I said the contractor is the only one that has the has legal responsibility for their bid, because they have a "certificate of good standing" by the state and must be licenced & bonded. The suppliers are only responsible for the items they actually bid, and even then it's not legally binding.
I'm temped to up load the specs, addendums, and plans of a project to show you what a cluster F they are! Nothing is spelled out on sign bids many times, I have to guess on ADA sign counts every single bid. You have to read 3 pages of bullsh*t to figure out they never spec'd if the "aluminum letters" are cast, or routed & if routed, how thick, what finish? I have been doing this for a while and I'm still trying to figure out wtf they are talking about half the time.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Agreed, as I said the contractor is the only one that has the has legal responsibility for their bid, because they have a "certificate of good standing" the suppliers are only responsable for the items
they actually bid, and even then it's not legally binding.
I'm temped to up load the specs, addendums, and plans of a project to show you what a cluster F they are! Nothing is spelled out, I have to guess on ADA signs every single time, you have to read 3 pages of bullsh*t to figure out
they never specd if the "aluminum letters" are cast, or routed & if routed, how thick? I have been doing this for a while and I'm still try wtf they are talking about half the time.

I regularly work with construction companies too and you're 100% right. They will have a drawing of a sign with no real detail of how it's made. I did one for a sub-division and the one we settled on was completely different than what we started with. It's like they just throw some shit in there and when it comes time to actually think about the sign we change everything...after I won the bid

 

[Gino]

Andy, I don't believe you're correct on this either, but one can hope.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is, the contractor submitted your bid, it was awarded and THEN he comes to you saying you will eat it. That's not fair, but what in business is fair ??

So, if you have a spec sheet on a particular project and you decide you can do A, B, D, F, S and Y and you can only do one of some of them and numerous of others and you put it in your bid, why would anyone even be interested in your bid ?? To keep bidding orders straight, you are bidding on the entire job. You cannot cherry pick particular items or how many, unless YOU clarify it with the one putting out the bid request up front.
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If it's found that the bid request was in error, you have all the rights on your side. If you pick & choose without initialing said changes, it's gonna be on you, unless someone is feeling sorry for you.

I agree most of thses things are a cluster F, but that's still no reason to bid haphazardly. Then again, I like to ask questions to make sure we're on the same page about lotsa things. I won't guess.

 

[Andy D]

well, then hopefully the OP will keep this thread updated with the results... because I believe you're giving the OP false hope, given the information provided.

I'm not giving the OP false hope, if I post something I am not sure of, I always say that in the post.
While it could be different in florida, anybody can bid these sign project, your 90 year grandmother could literally send bids to contractors between sewing bees.
It take a long time to build up a client list of contractors that trust you... they might get 5-6 sign package bids & if they just go with an unknown bidder because they had a much lower bid, they are
a moron.
Also, with some of my bids, the contractor only gets some of the signs & the rest from someone else.

Two more this to the OP:
1- many times they add allowances in the specs for signs because it is so hard to get a hard count, did you check?
2- if you end up giving a dime to this douchebag, I will hunt you down and cuss you out! Don't do it.

 

[Andy D]

repeat

 

[2B]

We have run into this issue a few times over the years.
Some times it is the fault of the General Contractor (GC), sometimes the Architect, sometimes the Engenieer and sometimes us the lowly sign provider.

Regardless of the cause, it is how you handle the situation and more importantly how FUTURE projects are handled.
a few points we have learned over the years

• Try to have multiple eyes check,
  
• ALWAYS send an RFI (Request For Information), for all conflicts. Even if you know the answer.
  • Having a paper trail and records (NON-Verbal) will be your alley
• List on bid submittal and proofs that only the items listed on YOUR submittal are your responsibility
• Send DETAILED proofs with the specs
  
• BOTH the bid and the proofs require WRITTEN approval

Most GC are easy enough to work with and understand that there can and will be changes during the project.

IF the GC is a total A-HOLE, we have walked away from projects that are in mid progress.
NOTE: only consider this if you are NOT in an already signed contract and the amount of loss for products and/or time is manageable