Ever see a wrap go this bad?

[Desert_Signs]

One: that media has a lot of problems. Two: Denatured alcohol can be used as a fuel similar to diesel. It is NOT recommended for prepping as it leaves a residue on the paint. Use isopropyl instead. Three: offgas for 24-36 hours before laminating. Four: Client neglect of washing and waxing.
All of these are factors although the exact problem is undetectable.

Thanks for your help!

1. Yeah, we no longer use Arlon. Too many issues. This particular wrap, short of the "baking" actually is still in very good shape.

2. Didn't know that! Our supplier (N. Glantz) recommended that as a final prep. Some quick searching backs up your statement and I appreciate the tip!

3. We use a latex printer. We have been told by the printer and vinyl manufacturer that no outgassing is necessary. Is this incorrect?

4. I agree with customer failure to maintain. I don't know that it's ever been washed.

At this point, I think it's just sun damage, and the reason why the hood and other parts are in better condition may be because of where he parks it. Perhaps those areas are more shaded?

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Inexperience caused the vinyl to fail this spectacularly? Did you happen to even look at the pictures? Or are you so convinced that everyone is out to steal your business your thought processes are screwed up?

Did you ask who produced and installed this? No, of course you didn't. It's much more fun to be smug, isn't it?

Yes, inexperience can cause vinyl to fail like that. Ohh, believe me I looked at the pictures all right. No, I didn't ask who produced the prints, but I'm betting you're just dieing to let that one out. And YES, with quality as you've shown I'm certainly afraid of you stealing food off my table.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Yes, inexperience can cause vinyl to fail like that. Ohh, believe me I looked at the pictures all right. No, I didn't ask who produced the prints, but I'm betting you're just dieing to let that one out. And YES, with quality as you've shown I'm certainly afraid of you stealing food off my table.

:iamwithstupid

 

[MikePro]

Nope, not upset. Just find the post whores comical.

i'd be upset if i was known for using crummy vinyl that failed in the field. I most likely would have warrantied this as well... but then again, 3M would help me back it up for this kind of failure within a year of application.

 

[Stealth Ryder]

Media and lam is in the first line of text.

HP L25500 with HP ink. Arlon 6000 XRP. Arlon 3220 lam.

Sorry, went straight to pics without reading.... I may have also been guilty of PUI (Posting Under the Influence) last night, given that it was Saturday evening... Latex ink should not do this, Me thinks it was contaminated in some way...

 

[iSign]

not that I support it... not that I don't... but posting to raise another blood pressure, should not be construed as posting to raise one's own post count...

...certainly, one can see how another's tendency to post irreverent, irrelevant & inflammatory drivel would find them sufficient opportunity such as to become mutually exclusive of any need for concern over ones post count!

 

[Stealth Ryder]

not that I support it... not that I don't... but posting to raise another blood pressure, should not be construed as posting to raise one's own post count...

...certainly, one can see how another's tendency to post irreverent, irrelevant & inflammatory drivel would find them sufficient opportunity such as to become mutually exclusive of any need for concern over ones post count!

Huh???

 

[oldgoatroper]

waht's a post cuont?

 

[iSign]

Huh???

raged racer accused "cheap" of adding to this thread merely to raise "cheaps" number of total posts... a common accusation, but one I've never witnessed as far as I know (ok, maybe with the exception of Cappy )..

...anyway, I'm just suggesting cheap may have been more inclined to stir the pot just to raise racer's blood pressure...

..and I went on to observe that if a guy wants to stir the pot... (and we all know some of us do from time to time ) then the last thing he will have to worry about is his post count... as it's quite likely to rise a lot faster anyway, if one isn't waiting to have a constructive comment, before entering a conversation...

...like me for example... I don't give a rat's ass how many posts I have... regulars here know I will help whenever I can, and will phuq with y'all whenever I want...

...I may not be welcome in etiquette school... but I think I manage to fit in here... regardless if a few "enraged racers" from time to time think their threads should be exempt from the "talk shop" banter the rest of us have been enjoying at will, for a decade before he showed up...

 

[Stealth Ryder]

raged racer accused "cheap" of adding to this thread merely to raise "cheaps" number of total posts... a common accusation, but one I've never witnessed as far as I know (ok, maybe with the exception of Cappy )..

...anyway, I'm just suggesting cheap may have been more inclined to stir the pot just to raise racer's blood pressure...

..and I went on to observe that if a guy wants to stir the pot... (and we all know some of us do from time to time ) then the last thing he will have to worry about is his post count... as it's quite likely to rise a lot faster anyway, if one isn't waiting to have a constructive comment, before entering a conversation...

...like me for example... I don't give a rat's ass how many posts I have... regulars here know I will help whenever I can, and will phuq with y'all whenever I want...

...I may not be welcome in etiquette school... but I think I manage to fit in here... regardless if a few "enraged racers" from time to time think their threads should be exempt from the "talk shop" banter the rest of us have been enjoying at will, for a decade before he showed up...

Ahhhh, I gotcha bro... Rock On Sir...

 

[Fitch]

EVERYONE should offer a warranty excepting where it is agreed to prior to undertaking a job.

This ( IMO ) is a 50 /50 deal:

1) The client should certainly have raised the issue sooner because I would hazard a guess that it had started to fail within the 12 month warranty period.

2) Whilst most sign providers offer a standard 12 month warranty, I definately would expect a wrap to last must longer than just over 12 months.

Without getting into an argument with your client I would suggest a 50/50 split on the current $ cost to replace, and see how well this is received.

At the same time... don't hide behind the "12 month" warranty and run from your responsibilities.

Good luck (you may need it)

Cheers - G

 

[GAC05]

I'd like to know what other shops offer as part of their wrap warranty.
Under extreme conditions the window perf and horizontal panels may give up early, even when the best materials and proper installation has been done.
3M is boasting their new 8528 lam has an "Industry First" 2 year warranty on horizontal install.
Does that mean all the other stuff out there facing directly up into the sun is not expected to last even 2 years by the people that make it?

wayne k
guam usa

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...EcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=8528Laminate_Low.pdf

 

[Desert_Signs]

i'd be upset if i was known for using crummy vinyl that failed in the field. I most likely would have warrantied this as well... but then again, 3M would help me back it up for this kind of failure within a year of application.

I see your point, as that's constructive. I certainly don't mind constructive criticism. It's the blatant attack on my shop's reputation and integrity that is irksome.

At the time this was applied, I was not at this shop, and after I took over, Arlon has never been purchased again. A quick look through this forum learned me on that. I also learned that many people tried it out and had good results. We have now moved to 3M.

That said, in this neck of the woods (Arizona), even 3M would tell you to go piss up a rope. The warranty on horizontal surfaces is zero. Yup, zero. They won't even warranty it for one day. We, however, warranty it for one year from date of install. Stupid? Yeah. Probably. But it's pretty easy to build the known replacement cost of the horizontal surfaces into the price of the wrap. We explain this to our customers, as well as provide them with a copy of the warranty from 3M.

I've just never seen material (of any type) fail this badly in a little over a year. I was posting for the curiosity factor. I wondered if anyone else has seen this happen this quickly.

 

[NEGD]

for a decade before he showed up...

Or she darnnit

Yes!! added another one to my post count

 

[p3]

Yep. I have. I had to remove a wrap from a couple vans an electric company in town had done. one looked like that and the other looked like this:

 

[Premier Wraps]

That said, in this neck of the woods (Arizona), even 3M would tell you to go piss up a rope. The warranty on horizontal surfaces is zero. Yup, zero. They won't even warranty it for one day. We, however, warranty it for one year from date of install. Stupid? Yeah. Probably. But it's pretty easy to build the known replacement cost of the horizontal surfaces into the price of the wrap. We explain this to our customers, as well as provide them with a copy of the warranty from 3M.

Awesome idea!

 

[BigfishDM]

One: that media has a lot of problems. Two: Denatured alcohol can be used as a fuel similar to diesel. It is NOT recommended for prepping as it leaves a residue on the paint. Use isopropyl instead. Three: offgas for 24-36 hours before laminating. Four: Client neglect of washing and waxing.
All of these are factors although the exact problem is undetectable.

x2

 

[MikePro]

I see your point, as that's constructive. I certainly don't mind constructive criticism. It's the blatant attack on my shop's reputation and integrity that is irksome.

not attacking, just saying... i'd be pissed off too!

whether you intentionally use "bad vinyl" or not, it doesn't matter what you, me, or the next sign shop thinks. your customer will be your WORST advertisement EVER if they're not happy, or at least thrown a bone showing sympathy for their situation.

good word of mouth is nice, it might get you another job or two down the line.... bad word of mouth can be DISASTEROUS! Everyone loves to gossip about the "Bad Guy".
take a chick to the movies, show her a good time, and never call her again... she'll live and who knows, you might date her roommate down the line. sleep with her sister and throw up in her car, man you better start finding another zip code to fish for dates.

 

[cartoad]

Look at the manufactures information, none of them 3M, Avery ect, will warranty on a horizontal surface. Have had two similar failures happen, one with Avery, and one with
3M, both applied about the same time. Common areas, neither vehicle was washed often, and both were out in the sun everyday, and we get extreme heat/sun and cold.
Other jobs we have done where the owner is washing on a regular basis have not experieced this. Prep same on all vehicles, installers same.

 

[striper14]

Sun damage. We get lots of it over here in sunny queensland. I did some 6" sllver stripes on a black suzuki swift on the hood,turret, bootlid etc & some company signs on the doors. The stripes were 3M Auto grade & the signs 5 year calendered. The car was never under cover. ( company cars never need washing or servicing ) After 18 months the stripes were motley blackish in various places & beginning to crack up as well. The signs were fine except for some fading of an Oracal yellow. Luckily I'd told them there was no warranty on horizontal surfaces but they wanted the stripes anyway