Fun Situation.

[jochwat]

My 2 cents here, and I apologize if this has already been presented because I came late to the party...

One of two things can happen.

1. Give them the stupid files and wash your hands of them. I know it hurts to swallow that down, believe me.

or,

2. (if it's not too late), mention that you only keep previous customer files for up to XXX days. After that, files are removed from our system. I do not have the files. Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.

 

[signsnyc]

So my concern is they are trying to threaten me with legal action, hence asking for my address to send a certified demand letter to hand over the artwork. When no artwork was charged on any of the invoices just signs/materials. Is this something they can try to force a small business to hand over? I just don't need that kinda issue as a small business. Getting a lawyer etc.

I let them know if they want all the original artwork we designs we would be happy to provide it for them for a low cost of $35.00 per design/logo that we vectorized. But of course no response back so I don't know. I guess we will play it by ear and see if they try to take legal action over something they never paid for or not. If the invoices said Design Time was charged I can see them having a case but the design was never talked about we just make sure what ever we print is the best quality possible so we make sure all our things are vectored properly.

The gamey thing will most likely be the last resort for sure.

Their response is completely unethical, and you did the right thing, they need to pay for your services.

 

[signdudegraphix]

We use a standard disclaimer on every proof and contract we provide that all artwork is our property unless otherwise noted, and that they agree to pay a base fee of $1,000 for any unauthorized use of our artwork. Basically if they want our design files, they need to pay for them, or have it stipulated that they get them. If we provide a proof, and they take even just our concept to another shop who says they'll do it cheaper, they could still have to pay us anyway if we choose to pursue it. Our time has value. The company has had this policy in place for decades, hasn't had to fight or defend it yet, and judging from the month backlog I have, it doesn't hurt our business in the least. Always state your policies up front, in writing. We occasionally give them to customers who request them, but not very often. Kind of like how a cop can write a ticket or give a warning if you have the right attitude, or doughnuts.

Something you could do in this case is a trade, artwork for a piece of paper in the form of either an "in-kind donation form", or receipt from the charity listing the full value of your time as a donation so you can write it off on taxes. They get the artwork, you get to write the entire time you spent on it at your shop rate off as a charitable donation. Win-win for all.

Can you share what your disclaimer says? We’re looking for one and can’t find one that fits our criteria. Thanks

 

[DL Signs]

Can you share what your disclaimer says? We’re looking for one and can’t find one that fits our criteria. Thanks

Here's what's included on proofs and mockups, it doesn't have to be anything elaborate, and isn't. Most times it's at this point people walk off with your work and look for someone to do what you designed cheaper. We have a spot for them to sign it, so they know it's there. All initial proofs and mockups are flattened, lower resolution to prevent them being used by others, depending on the job is, some are also watermarked. Just like how locks are better at keeping honest people honest than stopping crooks, it won't stop someone determined, but it removes any question or doubt about what belongs to who, and eliminates the "gee, I didn't know" excuse.

Note: This artwork is the sole property of D&L Signs Inc. No use of
this design, or part of, is permitted by anyone other than
D&L Signs Inc. Anyone using this design, or part of, for any reason
including replicating or building will be charged and agrees to
pay $1,000.00 design fee. The below has read this agreement.

 

[Aardvark Printing]

So we did a pretty big job last year printing for a local nonprofit. We did around $8400 in signs and banners.

Well this is for a yearly ice rink and they have sponsors each year so we did all the sponsor signs and decals.

Well we moved out of California to Texas this year but we do ship all over the United States, so I just received a text message from this nonprofit asking us to email all the design work we did for them for free last year.

So to keep this short and sweet we printed all the signage for them for his huge event but donated all our time and effort in designing and vectorizing all the logos that were given to us and trust me we are talking 30-40 logos that we personally vectorized and made sure they printed clean. We are talking 3ft x 6ft prints that went all around the ice rink.

So we kindly responded back after there Demand of a text message that per the invoicing they were only charged for the signs and not out time spend on making these signs the best they can be possible.

They then replied back this artwork is as much there’s as it is mine and that we need to hand it over, then went on to ask for my address so they can send me something lol.

So my question to the community has anyone else run into this problem? We are just a small business me my wife and kids. We donated a lot of our time in that community to make positive changes and help the community and now to have them come at us like that feels horrible.

All of our invoices they paid never reference design time so that was never paid for only donated by us but I don’t feel I need to share our hard work with them so they can take it and get it printed elsewhere. Who ever takes on the job for them great but they should have to put in the work just like we did to make everything look amazing.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this situation! We appreciate this community!

Send them the finished art and wish them luck. I've had to do this several times and I'd say at least half the time they come back at some point. Non profits have a high turnover. The next person that takes over for who ever you were dealing with will see your name all over their art files and know who to call. Telling them to pound sand might give you some temporary satisfaction but it also burns a bridge that might still be profitable in the future. Also in the fun internet environment we live in having them go online and shred you won't help either though there's no guarantee they won't anyway.

 

[Shred_signs]

So we did a pretty big job last year printing for a local nonprofit. We did around $8400 in signs and banners.

Well this is for a yearly ice rink and they have sponsors each year so we did all the sponsor signs and decals.

Well we moved out of California to Texas this year but we do ship all over the United States, so I just received a text message from this nonprofit asking us to email all the design work we did for them for free last year.

So to keep this short and sweet we printed all the signage for them for his huge event but donated all our time and effort in designing and vectorizing all the logos that were given to us and trust me we are talking 30-40 logos that we personally vectorized and made sure they printed clean. We are talking 3ft x 6ft prints that went all around the ice rink.

So we kindly responded back after there Demand of a text message that per the invoicing they were only charged for the signs and not out time spend on making these signs the best they can be possible.

They then replied back this artwork is as much there’s as it is mine and that we need to hand it over, then went on to ask for my address so they can send me something lol.

So my question to the community has anyone else run into this problem? We are just a small business me my wife and kids. We donated a lot of our time in that community to make positive changes and help the community and now to have them come at us like that feels horrible.

All of our invoices they paid never reference design time so that was never paid for only donated by us but I don’t feel I need to share our hard work with them so they can take it and get it printed elsewhere. Who ever takes on the job for them great but they should have to put in the work just like we did to make everything look amazing.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this situation! We appreciate this community!

I have always let the customer know that they have sent my bad art. Depending on the customer I might work with on how to or where to or what to do to find their "good art files"

I don't redraw for free. period.

Clean up a line here or there maybe (<5 mins), but redrawing/vectorizing artwork, nope, that's a charge, always.
Then at the end of the job I might write off that charge. It's always easier to add a discount than it is to ask for more money for work you have already completed.
This will leave a paper trail too, should they want to come back and demand artwork.

Note: This artwork is the sole property of D&L Signs Inc. No use of
this design, or part of, is permitted by anyone other than
D&L Signs Inc. Anyone using this design, or part of, for any reason
including replicating or building will be charged and agrees to
pay $1,000.00 design fee. The below has read this agreement.

Also this is a pretty solid route too.

It will also only strength your paper trail too.

 

[spectrum maine]

try to get the work this year and outsource it. make some money

 

[Geneva Olson]

Ah...the old "I want my artwork files" dilemma.
What to do, what to do, this is what makes this forum truly great, lots of interesting opinions on this.

Think this out for a second. You said you "donated all our time and effort in designing and vectorizing all the logos" to be nice right, kinda.
If someone donated $100 to the non profit, would they want to keep their $100? No, a donation is a thing you let go of when you donate it.
So, you say you donated the artwork but now you want to keep it. Was it really a donation?
You may actually have done the artwork hoping that the following year they used you again.

Now on the other hand, I get you bro, about all the effort and time that goes into redoing really lousy artwork for customers.
When we're done with it it's like giving brith to a beautiful thing, we fall in love with our end product (emotion).
Hey what would life be like without emotion. Not so hot. So, I fully know the feeling of wanting to keep the little artwork children I made.
In many ways the end user is NOT entitled to it. You are giving them back a file they did not give you. But if you donated it, as you said, they are entitled to it.

I say give it to them, then write forever after on every quote you give...
"We can vectorize and clean up your artwork for $200 (?) and give you a 1 time copy, or we can clean it up for free and the cleaned files remains on our computer unless
they are purchased".
That's really bad wording but you get what I mean. Lesson learned, you're a much smarter business person now, that's for sure.
BTW, there are other threads on this subject on this forum, they are a lot of fun to read.

Enjoy the Texas sunshine! I'll be in Dallas in a few weeks visiting relatives.

What specifically did they state they donated? the time? or the artwork itself?
In my mind, the time is already gone and paid for. The donation is in the past. The end result of the donation OF SHOPTIME SPENT ON ARTWORK was the clean banners. Thats the extent of the obligation.
If they go somewhere else, another company can provide the same donation: (clean up the artwork for free). If they choose not to, then the customer needs to pay for the files.

 

[JBurton]

What specifically did they state they donated? the time? or the artwork itself?
In my mind, the time is already gone and paid for. The donation is in the past. The end result of the donation OF SHOPTIME SPENT ON ARTWORK was the clean banners. Thats the extent of the obligation.
If they go somewhere else, another company can provide the same donation: (clean up the artwork for free). If they choose not to, then the customer needs to pay for the files.

All fine and dandy, but the end result regardless is them badmouthing your company. Best case is they opt to pay for it and still badmouth your company. Best bet on anything that is as simple as vectorized logos is to turn it over. While true, you've invested labor, it was already invested and reaped. At this point the art will do you no more good.
Opposite this, if someone wanted the gcode I created to cut their logo, then they can generate it themselves.
Actually, no, I'm wrong, don't just hand it over, export svg's, those always come through all janky for me. Or maybe a ppt file would be nice.

 

[Shred_signs]

All fine and dandy, but the end result regardless is them badmouthing your company. Best case is they opt to pay for it and still badmouth your company. Best bet on anything that is as simple as vectorized logos is to turn it over. While true, you've invested labor, it was already invested and reaped. At this point the art will do you no more good.
Opposite this, if someone wanted the gcode I created to cut their logo, then they can generate it themselves.
Actually, no, I'm wrong, don't just hand it over, export svg's, those always come through all janky for me. Or maybe a ppt file would be nice.

i like the evolution of thought through this post.