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Need Help Greys Printing Blue

B

bdw99

New Member
Hey S101,
Been running into an issue recently where some of my greys are coming out blue regardless of CMYK or Pantone. Its gotten to the point where I'm having to make color swatches to color correct with all ICC profiles off. It just puzzles me because some other jobs with grey come out perfect. Another problem is that turning off ICC can get the greys right but then changes all the other colors. Just trying to see if there's a fix to get some consistency. Because eventually it'll get to the point where it'll be difficult to remember what customer I have to do this fix for and which ones i don't.

I'm running a HP latex 570 with Onyx Postershop. Default ICC that I use for everything is US Web Coated (SWOP) v2. Design software is Illustrator CC.

Also to mention I have an Epson V7000 with Edge print as rip software and it does not do this with the same ICC configuration.


Thanks.
 
Signarama Jockey

Signarama Jockey

New Member
Print heads are running fine? No issue with any colors dropping out?

Is the black you're printing a CMYK value or an RGB value or a spot color? Can you tell what the CMYK values are?

Did you make any changes recently like software updates?

Also, did I read correctly that you can achieve the black you want with some files but not others?
 
B

bdw99

New Member
Signarama Jockey said:
Print heads are running fine? No issue with any colors dropping out?

Is the black you're printing a CMYK value or an RGB value or a spot color? Can you tell what the CMYK values are?

Did you make any changes recently like software updates?

Also, did I read correctly that you can achieve the black you want with some files but not others?
Click to expand...
printheads are good, black is a cmyk value. 100%. No software changes in the past year. Blacks are always fine its just greys. Seems like sometimes there's too much cyan and always have to tone it back a bunch. But yes it is inconsistent, some come out fine, others don't
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
bdw99 said:
Another problem is that turning off ICC can get the greys right but then changes all the other colors.
Click to expand...
Printer operators routinely perform the machine calibration. This keeps the machine aligned with any "canned" (via factory or media supplier) ICC output profile. If gray tones are neutral with ICC off, it's likely that a new ICC profile be generated so a more normal workflow may be used.

Have you ever used the features of the 570 for these tasks?
 
R

Ronny Axelsson

New Member
Neutral grey colors are always difficult, and a couple of percent extra of any CMY color will create a clearly visible discoloration.
With a latex printer (at least with the HP 365 I use) it is importanat to make a color calibration now and then.

"Performing a Color Calibration is a routine maintenance step designed to keep a consistant color over time and over the course of many print jobs.
Each printhead is designed to maintain a stable temperature and drop volume, however as the printhead ages, that drop volume can gradually
decrease in size and weight. When that drop volume changes, the color could gradually shift."

HP Latex Printers - Performing Color Calibrations
 
J

jprout

New Member
I am running an old HP DesignJet L26500 with Onyx 10.2.4.5 and I have not been able to get grays for years. Recently, we calibrated our medias and it does not make the grey look grey whatsoever. On my last test prints yesterday the greys were all on the green side even the PMS grey like 430, 431, 432, etc...
 
K

Kbrecken

New Member
you might find this file helpful, RIP & Print with & with Out Colour Management (ICC-OFF),

File 1 - of - 3
 

Attachments

  • GrayBalance_1-100_p1-5.pdf
    2.4 MB · Views: 67
P

Proofread People

New Member
bdw99 said:
Hey S101,
Been running into an issue recently where some of my greys are coming out blue regardless of CMYK or Pantone. Its gotten to the point where I'm having to make color swatches to color correct with all ICC profiles off. It just puzzles me because some other jobs with grey come out perfect. Another problem is that turning off ICC can get the greys right but then changes all the other colors. Just trying to see if there's a fix to get some consistency. Because eventually it'll get to the point where it'll be difficult to remember what customer I have to do this fix for and which ones i don't.

I'm running a HP latex 570 with Onyx Postershop. Default ICC that I use for everything is US Web Coated (SWOP) v2. Design software is Illustrator CC.

Also to mention I have an Epson V7000 with Edge print as rip software and it does not do this with the same ICC configuration.


Thanks.
Click to expand...

bdw99 said:
Hey S101,
Been running into an issue recently where some of my greys are coming out blue regardless of CMYK or Pantone. Its gotten to the point where I'm having to make color swatches to color correct with all ICC profiles off. It just puzzles me because some other jobs with grey come out perfect. Another problem is that turning off ICC can get the greys right but then changes all the other colors. Just trying to see if there's a fix to get some consistency. Because eventually it'll get to the point where it'll be difficult to remember what customer I have to do this fix for and which ones i don't.

I'm running a HP latex 570 with Onyx Postershop. Default ICC that I use for everything is US Web Coated (SWOP) v2. Design software is Illustrator CC.

Also to mention I have an Epson V7000 with Edge print as rip software and it does not do this with the same ICC configuration.


Thanks.
Click to expand...
We've come across the "grey" issue several times on the 570. I ended up deleting the profile and redownloading it (IJ40C_R). I was told by a tech that sometimes not all the data gets transmitted to the printer from the RIP. It seemed to take care of it, also I calibrate every time I change to different rolls of material.
 
K

Kbrecken

New Member
ColorCrest said:
Care to explain any process or solutions being used with the files?
Click to expand...
For me, having been a scanner operator back in the day when scanning was a thing, when digital photography and colour management didn't exist, it's all about the numbers and the viewing environment, which is key ( aka: 5000k / light booth )

So the trick is to find the CMYK recipe that produces a neutral gray balance. How we get to the numbers that produce the desired results can depends on your art, workflow, RIP settings, CM profiles and the list goes on...

So in effort to keep it simple, if someones having issues with gray balance a project where the art is raster or vector or a combination of both, the approach can change.

Obviously in this day and age there is no substitute for a device that is colour managed (custom profiled, calibrated and linearized), canned profiles are not always recommended, you really should have the ability to make your own.

That said there are some tricks and work arounds when the gray balance is still incorrect, the first thing I do is check is the file and again I'm looking at the numbers, if the file is out of balance I fix it, if the file is in balance, I turn my attention to the device

If you were to take the files I posted, impose them all up on 1 sheet and print them out using your default CM settings, what ever they may be, and also print them with CM off, at that point you might be able to pin point a chart that is producing the desired results, and then try to mimic that separation process, in your file or build a filter and apply it to a quick set to combat the issue.

FYI: I use Onyx Thrive for the RIP, and I use my 1-100 layouts to check if the device is in balance, if not, I re-linearize, if that still doesn't solve the problem, I re-profile,
 
N

netsol

Active Member
jprout said:
I am running an old HP DesignJet L26500 with Onyx 10.2.4.5 and I have not been able to get grays for years. Recently, we calibrated our medias and it does not make the grey look grey whatsoever. On my last test prints yesterday the greys were all on the green side even the PMS grey like 430, 431, 432, etc...
Click to expand...
have you considered the possibility that you are not doing it properly?
 
D

DJAvocado

New Member
Find wherever your color curve is and tell it to reduce the total amount of cyan and or boost your magenta if your grey is looking a little bluish
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
DJAvocado said:
Find wherever your color curve is and tell it to reduce the total amount of cyan and or boost your magenta if your grey is looking a little bluish
Click to expand...
If cyan is reduced from a blue-tinted gray, the blue hue will shift by taking on magenta, appearing more purple. If magenta is boosted, yet again, the blue hue will appear more purple.

Color correction of a blue-tinted gray would require more yellow which is the opposite of blue, or a reduction in equal amounts of magenta and cyan which the color blue is made of.

colorWheel.jpg
 
H

Humble PM

If I'm lucky, one day I'll be a Eudyptula minor
I spend 3% of my working life helping folks printing in colour darkrooms. Jumping from RGB to CMY thought processes - reminds me of a day, decades ago while doing C&G747 in the darkroom printing both colour negs *and* transparencies.

Easy to slip into the wrong correction.
 
K

Kbrecken

New Member
Ladies, Gentlemen, I don't want to debate Colour Management, RIPs, and or best practices, what I will engage in are possible solutions to a problem that can be resolved,

Gray balance is and always has been an issue across multiple platforms, it is at essence the backbone of all visual reproduction,

end game is, if the white is white and the black is black, everything in between should be neutral, then you should be good to go, thats why my file is 0% - 100%

I'm going to pop off on 3 of my devices some visual samples and will share with the hope to help anyone understand, how I attack this issue,
 
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