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how to handle a stolen design

buzzgraphics

New Member
Because people assume that since their logo is on it, or the design can not be used for someone else, they figure it is theirs.

Your analogy is flawed, grocery stores take precautionary measures like cameras, security and locked booze cabinets, they are even locking up the Tide to keep people from stealing... a copyright statement is a simple, painless precaution.

stores take precautions not to bolster the law but to catch people breaking it. the contract thing is overkill. in over five years this is the first time I've had this happen. I get most of my business BECAUSE i don't operate like a corporate law firm. Its usually a man to man transaction between to business owners, ending with a handshake. If they need the corporate thing there's other shops around that can serve them better.

bottom line, stealing is stealing. it's not apples to oranges. and I shouldn't have to put a bunch of legal crap on everything i send out to remind people that.
 

buzzgraphics

New Member
Did he pay it?

I've been in this position before and figured they wouldn't pay it if I sent it. If I have a legal contract, sure, but not when it is this gray area.
They know I'm not going to sue them and they have already proven they lack integrity.

there is no gray area, i designed something - they used it, without my permission.
 

GoodPeopleFlags

New Member
Get a deposit before doing any design work!

If they don't want to put down money before they can see what it's going to look like, show them a portfolio of your work. If they still insist on a proof before money, explain to them why you can't. If they still don't get it, walk away. It's going to be trouble and you'll be better off without them.
 

signage

New Member
Here this in on my proofs and I also have a full page with other info for them to sign!
 

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"Deposit Please"

New Member
..seems to me like when the Bull-Headed son entered the picture, things went sour. Had there been a deposit in place after the price agreement and before the initial design work, this situation wouldn't exist.
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
stores take precautions not to bolster the law but to catch people breaking it. the contract thing is overkill. in over five years this is the first time I've had this happen. I get most of my business BECAUSE i don't operate like a corporate law firm. Its usually a man to man transaction between to business owners, ending with a handshake. If they need the corporate thing there's other shops around that can serve them better.

bottom line, stealing is stealing. it's not apples to oranges. and I shouldn't have to put a bunch of legal crap on everything i send out to remind people that.

That's your business model, so then deal with the possibility that someone might steal a design every 5 years... why complain when your business model shows a slight flaw and then question someone else who does business a different way.

My contract is based on a mutual understanding... it protects both parties if things go bad.

good luck with it...
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
there is no gray area, i designed something - they used it, without my permission.

Then send them a bill for artwork. Don't worry about calling them...they'll call you.

Stay positive, stay calm, stay professional. You start raising hell and accusing them of stealing it and calling them foofoo heads it'll just make it more difficult. People don't view intellectual property theft the same way they view stealing physical property so even though they are in the wrong they'll fight you over it.

Put a simple copyright claim on all your future stuff.
 

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
Send them a bill for design ..$1,600 my 1st thought grab a lawyer.

To preventive this .. they need to see the design cost.. in black & white, use of design with out permission and another design / layout cost but you hold and do work needed with.
 

J Hill Designs

New Member
stores use signs to 'bolster' the law...just like you should...
 

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Pat Whatley

New Member
Another option is to find out the name of the shop that did the work and send the sign shop the bill. They're the ones who actually reproduced the artwork.

All of this is gonna depend a whole lot on what the artwork actually was, like Rick said.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
stores take precautions not to bolster the law but to catch people breaking it. the contract thing is overkill. in over five years this is the first time I've had this happen. I get most of my business BECAUSE i don't operate like a corporate law firm. Its usually a man to man transaction between to business owners, ending with a handshake. If they need the corporate thing there's other shops around that can serve them better.


You got lucky. Still doing things by the handshake is very much an outdated way of thinking and it's a line of thinking that is killing another industry that I am a part of (equine).

"Contract thing" is not overkill, it's actually like the store analogy. It is "your" precaution to prevent theft or if they get caught to provide compensation.

Bottom line, if you want to continue to do just the handshake deal, then you run the risk of this happening and when it does, you just throw it in the ole bin of "cost of doing business the way you do it". Even when there are contracts present, they are still broken, every day. Some businesses find it costs them less to pay the penalty then to go through with the contract as planned. It happens, but if you don't have language as to what the parties agree to as far as "punishment" for breaking the contract (within legal reason) then there was no "meeting of the minds" and it's very hard to get anything for all that hard work.

For better or for worse, that is the way it is. That's the way that it has become. Either change with the times or the times change you.
 

buzzgraphics

New Member
Get a deposit before doing any design work!

If they don't want to put down money before they can see what it's going to look like, show them a portfolio of your work. If they still insist on a proof before money, explain to them why you can't. If they still don't get it, walk away. It's going to be trouble and you'll be better off without them.

this is a customer i've been dealing with for about 4 years. Long standing customers get a little leeway in the design process.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
You don't need disclaimers on the work, signed contracts, or any of that nonsense. All you need is a file on your machine showing the creation date. A screen shot showing both an Explorer window showing the file creation date and a window showing the contents of the file.

This and a copy of the Berne Convention, available for printing on line, is sufficient for a judgement in small claims court. I know this because it worked for me.

Get a judgement and if they don't pay, put a mechanic's lien on their assets. You local sheriff will be happy to serve the lien.
 

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
Buzzgraphics .. your right there is no gray area.... it wasn't his to use....and Rick ..is right.

, I also operate on a handshake and once in awhile, no agreement will be met and ya lose.

Ya just try to keep it at a min.

Best way is to talk everything out, and make sure each understand, and you remain in control of what you will do for what price.
 

signage

New Member
to see how others have handled this situation. go in guns blazing or try to get some kind of positive result from it (the preferred option).

Most professionals stop this before it happens! Get depost and still mark that the artwork is ours unless it is purchased from us! that way we don't end up :banghead: :frustrated:
 

buzzgraphics

New Member
That's your business model, so then deal with the possibility that someone might steal a design every 5 years... why complain when your business model shows a slight flaw and then question someone else who does business a different way.

My contract is based on a mutual understanding... it protects both parties if things go bad.

good luck with it...

this is the beauty of owning your own business - you get to do it how YOU want to do it. If it works for you then go with it.

I'm not looking to change my operating procedures (at this time). what I wanted to see was how anyone else may have handled a similar situation. guns blazing or calm zen master. What if I had a contract? How do you handle it then? I don't think it makes a difference. I can call up and be a d*ck or call up and try to turn this into a positive result. I have the leverage here, regardless of contracts, and I wanted some advice about how to use it.
 
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buzzgraphics

New Member
Most professionals stop this before it happens! Get depost and still mark that the artwork is ours unless it is purchased from us! that way we don't end up :banghead: :frustrated:

long standing customers get some leeway. new customers for the first few jobs, a p.o. or 50% deposit is required.
 
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