Photoshop CS5.1 not giving TIFF as a format option

[Erikka@Rainier]

I'm stumped on this. I'm creating a file with a spot white channel in it. I go through the motions of setting it up but when I go to save the file, it only gives me PSD, RAW and 2.0 as options for format. I also tried the same steps in CS5 just in case it was something buggy but it didn't work. This doesn't occur all the time, since I've been able to create TIFF's using the same steps. Below is a breakdown of the steps. Perhaps you may be able to help me figure out why I can't save this right. I'm using a Mac if that is helpful.

Open AI file in Photoshop at 200 dpi CMYK 8 bit
Flatten image
Copy
Create New Spot channel (spot white)
Paste into spot white channel
Delete CMYK channels
Save As...

Thanks!!!

 

[iSign]

I don't have a full understanding of "channels" so I am probably going to be no help, but want to inquire anyway & maybe learn something...

First of all, what is the purpose of the "spot white" channel? for a solvent printer that can print white? If so, once it is flattened, the printer can still see that somehow? At this point, would a .tif file usually convert the entire rectangular artboard to white, wherever there wasn't other color information?

The only weird "can't save-as" events that I recall in photoshop were usually as result of my color mode being incompatible..,

...anyway, good luck!

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

The spot white is for printing on our Durst Rho 600 flatbed which can print white. The RIP can search for data called "spot white" and then it knows which elements of the design are to be white. The only requirement is that it is a TIFF, else the RIP can't see it. The info we paste into the spot white channel are tints of black, in this instance, we have items at 100% black and at 12% black, which is recognized as white in the printer. When we remove the CMYK channels, the tints are still in the spot white channel, and they show up on screen as shades of black/gray.

I've done this several times and had no issue until now. My predecessor said she had this come up once before and it had to do with some minor setting but she can't recall what it was.

 

[Bobby H]

You can save TIFF images with standard alpha channels, even if one of the alpha channels is named "spot white."

If you specifically change the alpha channel's properties to where it is listed as a spot color then you're forced to save using Photoshop's PSD format. The rule applies if you're creating monotone, duotone, etc. mode images where spot color inks will be used.

 

[james breest]

when the file size gets to big with cs5 it will limit the options you have for saving the file.

 

[Bobby H]

Photoshop rarely limits users to certain file formats based on image size. The only time this happens is when the image is very massive, weighing gigabytes in size. Photoshop will suggest the .PSB format.

When your image include spot color channels or certain deep bit depths per color channel then you may be limited to saving only in Photoshop .PSD or .PSB.

 

[ForgeInc]

If you specifically change the alpha channel's properties to where it is listed as a spot color then you're forced to save using Photoshop's PSD format. The rule applies if you're creating monotone, duotone, etc. mode images where spot color inks will be used.

This.

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

The file is roughly 88" x 61" at 100 dpi, I dropped it down from 200 due to file size. I'm working with it at half size since the original is so big.

@BobbyH, sorry if this is a newb question, when you refer to the alpha channel, is the spot white channel included in that? Reason I ask is all I do is create new spot channel called "spot white" and that's it. I don't make any other changes to anything in PS. I'm going through the motions each time I create one of these files. About a month ago I made 15 files with spot white and had no issues saving them. Those files are in excess of 400-500 Mb so I'm not sure how much file size has to do with it. I even made a little test file at 6x6 and it won't work.

EDIT: I tried creating a tiny file that is only 6x6 at 25 dpi and it still won't let me save as TIFF. I'm fairly new at using Photoshop to create print files, especially the spot white stuff since this is the first printer I've operated that can print using white ink.

 

[ForgeInc]

I just tried making a spot white .tif and it saved fine, though a couple weeks ago I do remember having the exact same issue you are and I figured out a workaround, like what Bobby mentions above. What RIP/printer are you using? The link below helped me tremendously, it is specifically for HP FB printers but could likely apply to your situation too.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/51434486/CQ114-90054-HP-White-Ink-Workflow-Guide

(Actually I think I just realized what your problem is. Are you deleting all the other channels, or simply turning them off? If you delete the extra channels you have to save as a .psd. If you just turn off the other channels, you can save as a .tif. try that...)

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

I just tried making a spot white .tif and it saved fine, though a couple weeks ago I do remember having the exact same issue you are and I figured out a workaround, like what Bobby mentions above. What RIP/printer are you using? The link below helped me tremendously, it is specifically for HP FB printers but could likely apply to your situation too.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/51434486/CQ114-90054-HP-White-Ink-Workflow-Guide

(Actually I think I just realized what your problem is. Are you deleting all the other channels, or simply turning them off? If you delete the extra channels you have to save as a .psd. If you just turn off the other channels, you can save as a .tif. try that...)

I'm using the proprietary RIP that comes with the Durst Rho 600, not sure what it's called at the moment. I am deleting the CMYK channels altogether, not simply turning them off. I will try turning off the channels and report back to you.

 

[J Hill Designs]

confirmed only turning them off allows to save as tiff

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

I was able to save it as a TIFF by turning the channels off but I can't confirm my machine will read it until I'm done printing a job. Conversely, I have CMYK elements that will be printing with this job and those elements will be on a different PS layer. Will turning off the CMYK mean the rest of my job gets turned off?

 

[J Hill Designs]

I would imagine as long as your spot alpha channel gets read correctly as spot white the RIP will see it whether or not you have they CMYK channels turned off or on...

 

[signswi]

Save them out as two files, place on top of each other in indesign, output as a pdf.

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

Save them out as two files, place on top of each other in indesign, output as a pdf.

Can't. The RIP only reads TIFF or PS files.

 

[Bobby H]

@BobbyH, sorry if this is a newb question, when you refer to the alpha channel, is the spot white channel included in that? Reason I ask is all I do is create new spot channel called "spot white" and that's it.

Alpha channels are essentially gray scale images added to the existing primary CMYK or RGB color channels.

Alpha channels are often used as masks to hide or reveal areas in the primary image. For instance, a layer mask is merely an alpha channel that either hides or reveals content on a specific layer depending on what is white, black or any shade in between. The function is pretty nice since it doesn't modify any of the actual content on the layer. The mask is the only thing that gets modified.

Alpha channels are often used to create selections to modify specific areas in an image either on a specific layer of the image or "globally" on a flattened image.

You can save TIFF images with 1 or more alpha channels in addition to the primary color channels. Certain page layout and graphics programs support TIFF images with alpha channels. You can use an alpha channel to knock out the background of an image so the photographic object appears to be floating. The PNG web graphics format supports use of an alpha channel to create floating or transparency effects.

Alpha channels can also be specified for spot color use. This approach is more proprietary. Photoshop forces the user to go with the PSD format in such cases.

Erika, you may have to look through your printer's documentation more carefully to see how it needs the TIFF image saved. It may be a case where the TIFF has a standard alpha channel, but if the extra channel is named "spot white" the RIP will treat it that way rather than have it mask out certain areas of the image.

 

[signswi]

Can't. The RIP only reads TIFF or PS files.

Get a new RIP

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

Get a new RIP

That's incredibly helpful. First off, I'm an operator, not the owner. I can't simply get a new RIP. Second, the machine doesn't operate on any other RIP, it's proprietary. And finally, pre-press people in digital printing typically steer clear of printing anything from a PDF, especially one that came from InDesign. This thread isn't really about selecting a RIP, I have a problem with Photoshop.

 

[ForgeInc]

That's incredibly helpful. First off, I'm an operator, not the owner. I can't simply get a new RIP. Second, the machine doesn't operate on any other RIP, it's proprietary. And finally, pre-press people in digital printing typically steer clear of printing anything from a PDF, especially one that came from InDesign. This thread isn't really about selecting a RIP, I have a problem with Photoshop.

Stay away from PDF? Interesting, our entire workflow is PDF, as is most everyone of our vendors? And your issue definitely IS affected by your rip because you need to build your files so your rip reads them appropriately. Finally, I highly doubt that your printer can only uses 1 "proprietary" rip, our production manager used a durst with Caldera at his last job.

If you only want to print the white ink, (one color) you would turn the other channels off. If you want to print white in addition to full color, you leave the CMYK channels on. If you need more help you have to get specific with us on what type of rip you have.

For example: I know that in Onyx you have to name your white channel "Spot1". Then you simply save as a PDF and specify how the ink is layed down at the rip. If in Caldera, you name your channel "Spot White" and again, once you save as a PDF the rip will handle how it is layed down.

 

[Bobby H]

And finally, pre-press people in digital printing typically steer clear of printing anything from a PDF, especially one that came from InDesign.

Hmm. Smells a little like the old QuarkXpress vs. InDesign debates.

I don't know the market share numbers, but InDesign is used by a great deal of newspapers, magazine publications, advertising agencies and design houses. Lots of image setters and RIPs are geared for handling PDF files, particularly those generated by apps like Adobe Illustrator and Adobe InDesign.

Quark had been the dominant player by far in the 1990s, owning as much as 90% of the print publishing market. But the company's dismally slow pace of R&D hurt it severely in the early 2000s. Mac OSX arrived on the scene but Quark took way too long in releasing an OSX compatible version of Xpress. Adobe InDesign was immediately a credible alternative, offering advanced OpenType support and a lot of other features Quark has taken years to match. Quark Xpress 8 and 9 have basically been playing catch up with InDesign.