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Roland vs. Mutoh

Jester1167

Premium Subscriber
About 3 years ago Rolands had problems with the capping station pumps. The problem has been solved. In 3.5 years we have replaced 1 head due to head strikes out of 6 heads. We didn't have to replace it, but we print alot of OSHA decals with 6pt part #s. The 10 deflected nozzels made for fuzzy text. We were also proactive and replaced the drive motor because it was squeeking. Total cost was $1600 in 3.5 years.

Our Roland has served us well.

I have no experience with the Mutoh, but if you take care of your equipment it will take care of you.
 

scene329

New Member
some people take great care of their equipment and some people just don't care and toss money away. Overall bang for your buck at this point it seems that either printer is great just personal preference. What about ink cost per sq. ft.? Are these the same cost? I've found that both machines cost about $0.28 per sq. ft. w/ full coverage but, then I've heard both machines cost $0.55 per sq. ft w/ full coverage. How do I figure this out?
 

chopper

New Member
some people take great care of their equipment and some people just don't care and toss money away. Overall bang for your buck at this point it seems that either printer is great just personal preference. What about ink cost per sq. ft.? Are these the same cost? I've found that both machines cost about $0.28 per sq. ft. w/ full coverage but, then I've heard both machines cost $0.55 per sq. ft w/ full coverage. How do I figure this out?

hey all I am saying is don't buy from some one who will lie to you to make a sale, I just want that to be clear... if pro wraps says he is printing for .28 a square I would believe him, I would also believe him when he says his machines are rock solid, since both machines use the epson print heads one being the wave and one not I do not know if one prints cheaper per sq than the other, I haven't checked for a while the actual costs I was running per sq ft since I am not printing big sqft jobs, I am geared more twards the custom one off designs etc...to be total honest I think either machine will fit your needs, I would go to your local dealers and have them do a demo for you so you can see them in action and understand the differences between the machines, ask a lot of questions and then you can make an informed decision, after all you are the one who will have to live with your purchase not me...
//chopper
 

ProWraps

New Member
we average about 85-90. we figure 200 sq/ft hour between both printers. they are slightly slower. and trust me i sit there with a calculator and calculate print times and ink consumption. yes, im a dork. but im the bean counter.

and chopper is right and passionate. and good for him for it. we all should be. both printers are good machines. the only reason we have stuck with mutoh is our first printer was a used falcon outdoor. we were happy with it, and the value of the new line of mutohs. so we stuck with them. i am sure the rolands are great machines and offer equal value as well. as mentioned in this thread, buy what is the best value for you, as well as has good support.
 

scene329

New Member
Sounds good! On average how many 440 mil ink cartridges does a steady shop go through a month? I'm trying to find this out because my local shop is willing to give me quite a discount for the Roland Eco-sol inks. I just got this email now.
 

ProWraps

New Member
1304 and 1204 use 220. we go through 20-30/week sometimes. averaging print cartridges is futile. workload determines ink usage. some weeks we go through much less. we are printing 13500+ sq/ft for a job right now. that is not normal for us. i guess to answer your question, we go through probably 10-20/month. but again, it depends on workload.
 

scene329

New Member
1304 and 1204 use 220. we go through 20-30/week sometimes. averaging print cartridges is futile. workload determines ink usage. some weeks we go through much less. we are printing 13500+ sq/ft for a job right now. that is not normal for us. i guess to answer your question, we go through probably 10-20/month. but again, it depends on workload.

If I'm able to run that same workload the cost seems huge if you can find a place to give you $15 off per cartridge. You don't use the 440 mil? They're available..
 

cmaxdesigns

New Member
Roland vs. Mutoh -

I have owned both machines Falcon Outdoor and VP540 and prefer Roland. Here are the reasons why.

1) Go look at both machines next to each other and compare the quality of materials used to manufacture the equipment. I think you will notice a industrial build quality from Roland and a more consumer build quality from Mutoh.

2) When purchasing these types of printers you need great service and for this reason I made the switch from a Mutoh to a Roland. In my experience the Roland service has been in another league as far as cost and response time.

3) Versaworks is Roland's RIP software and takes maybe 3 hours to learn. The learning curve is so easy and the software works great. You can be up and running the machine yourself by end of day. This was not the case with the Mutoh for me.

4) As far as print quality it is not a fair analysis from me because while the Roland prints higher quality hands down, I am comparing it to an older Mutoh. I believe the new ones are a toss up.

5) I have 2 VP540s which print and cut and I would not have it any other way (I purchased another one recently because I opened another location). If you are low on space this is great because it is only one machine. The precision is bar none because the printer is also the cutter and ripped to the same machine. The argument against the printer/cutter is that you are tying up the printer when cutting. Well you are probably very busy if this is a problem and because you are so busy you may want to purchase a faster printer then either of the machines you are looking at.

Again these are my opinions as I have owned both and I do not sell these machines, consumables or anything else. I make a living off of the Roland Vp540's which in my experience has been superior.
 
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scene329

New Member
It's tough to say how busy we'll be. Which is why I'm hesitant on getting just one machine for printing / cutting. Right now we manufacture custom buttons and we currently produce around 400,000 buttons a month. I don't see a problem with turning some huge business quickly doing decals / custom stickers. Do you think it would be wise to get a separate printer and cutter system?
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
It's tough to say how busy we'll be. Which is why I'm hesitant on getting just one machine for printing / cutting. Right now we manufacture custom buttons and we currently produce around 400,000 buttons a month. I don't see a problem with turning some huge business quickly doing decals / custom stickers. Do you think it would be wise to get a separate printer and cutter system?

If you want to print get a printer. If you want to cut, get a cutter. A machine that does both should automatically be suspect as doing one or the other, or both, poorly.

A Shopsmith comes to mind as the epitome of this sort of machine. At one time I thought that this was the machine of my dreams so I sold all my stand alone machines and bought one. It certainly did everything, but none of it well, and I spent far more time setting it up as this or that machine than I did actually using it. After a few month of putting up with this I sold it and bought stand alone stationary machines once again. Now when I need a band saw, I step over to my band saw. When I need a table saw, I ease over to my table saw. Likewise drill press, joiner/planer, shaper, belt sander, disk sander, spindle sander, lathe, etc. Each of these tools are basic transportation, nothing fancy, but each and every one of them out performs the same function on the Shopsmith and is orders of magnitude handier. That was 30 years ago and I still have the same tools all fully functional.

Regardless of that, the vast majority of the time you remove the print from the machine, do something with it or to it. From lamination to just letting it sit there. Then at some later time you load it into a cutter and cut it. On this basis alone separate machines make a lot more sense than one machine.

It has been noted that with two machines you can have both going simultaneously. In my experience this happens but not all that often.

The one telling objection to having it all in one machine is that when, not if but when, it needs fixing, you're pretty much out of business until it's back on the air.

All in all there will be many apologists for a single multi purpose machine. Ask how many of them converted to that from separate machines. Then ask anyone who went from a single machine to separate machines if they would ever go back.

The only compelling reason for a single machine is space. For that to be a valid criteria you must be operating out of a broom closet. The foot print of a plotter is about that of a couple of chairs.
 

COREYAARON

New Member
Hey man,

what would help you is reading all these opinions and try to find a local site that would have on or the other. You should speak directly to the techs that operate the machinery, not someone who just once in a while checks to see if their employee is working. I'm a technician that trains, troubleshoots, profiles and travels around the USA for reasons just like this. You should go in the field and watch them print, listen to the pumps, watch them do an automated cleaning, watch the feed/take up system, etc.
 

scene329

New Member
Have you used Advantage sign supply? That's who we're looking at buying this through. I've heard they offer great service.
 

Edserv

New Member
We're very happy with the purchase of our Mutoh 1204. It has cranked for us for the last year+ straight. I know you're looking to purchase a 1304 which I have no experience with. But so far, taken from someone using a VJ1204, trust me, it ROCKS. We're entering the vehicle Wrap market and are now looking for a cold-lam. Any help is much appreciated.

We researched printers for 6 months before starting Lets Go Banners, and for $ for value, the Mutoh's kicks *ss. We LOVE the wave-print.
I'm not getting any kick-backs from Mutoh- trust me. But for the money, buy a Mutoh.

Call me at 808-430-6567 if you would like to discuss.

Chris
Lets Go Banners
 

scene329

New Member
We've been in the same mode of doing research. As far as laminators go we decided to run with the GBC 640t 61" wide laminator with heat assist. If you are looking to get in touch with a great rep PM me and I'll get you his contact information. I'll let you know what I think of the VJ1304 when it arrives. *should be end of next week*.
 
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