Somebody please set me straight!

[Dronex]

Hello guys- I'm a beginning self taught sign painter and consistently have a difficult time trying to find information regarding the trade. It seems like everywhere I look, information is outdated, irrelevant, or non-existent. It's been one step at a time for me, bumping into every obstacle in the room to find a straight path, and I'm probably still screwing up.. So my question is: assuming you're using one shot and/or ronan lettering enamels on an MDO panel, what is the best way to prepare the panel for the longevity of the lettering and the sign in general? I have been using zinsser oil and water based primers with a background coat of whatever kind of hardware store bucket enamel (behr, valspar, rusto)- I've read statements here and elsewhere that this is a no-no but no one ever follows through with what is right, only with comments like "spend the extra time/money" which I am more than willing to do.. Should I paint the whole background with lettering enamel? Bulletin enamel? Acrylic enamel?.. I've just completed a two sided hanging outdoor sign finished in the aforementioned fashion and now I'm worried that the one shot is gonna jump ship after a couple seasons in the weather. On top of that I've been catching the drift that one shot is an untrustworthy product on its own, and experiencing this first hand has caused me to abandon some colors for ronan already.. With more work on the way I need to get a reliable system down before the angry townsfolk gather outside my shop- so what say you mineral spiritualists? Thanks for your help! -M

 

[visual800]

Back before MDO turned to crap we would scuff, prime with ext flat and then top coat and pile it on the edges and maybe a bead of caulk on edges. I dont know how MDO is now cause we havnt used it in over 10 years. But the method above suited us right. Maybe others that use it now can offer better suggestions

 

[player]

What do you use instead of MDO?

 

[visual800]

Aluminum, pvc, coroplast, maxmetal

 

[Billct2]

Buy the best MDO you can get, there are different qualities, buying from a sign supplier may get you a better product. You can seal the edges many ways, exterior glue, paintable chaulk, epoxy, just be sure to work it in. I usually use a good quality exterior primer and a high quality oil base top coat. When the sign is done you can give it a coat of liquid car wax and recommend the client wash and wax it twice year. You can also use some of the alternate materials like dibond, which can be scuffed and painted with an oil base top coat.

 

[Dronex]

Thanks for the tips! Ok, I've noticed from old panels I've collected that edges seem to be MDO's achilles' heel- plenty of titebond around the shop so I'll definitely start including that in the prep regimen.. Still curious about what you guys n gals are using on your backgrounds. Like I said its just been mostly rustoleum because I can go buy it from the store, although I'm not opposed to ordering my paint if its what a professional job requires. Ive been considering the chromatic and ronan bulletin enamels but I was under the impression these were for ad painting and not meant to last like lettering enamel..

 

[Jillbeans]

Glad to see that there is someone out there wanting to hand letter signs.
I try to use Alumalite these days as a substrate. It comes in some nice colors and all you have to do for the edges is glue on the U-channel plastic trim.

When I do use MDO, I buy it pre-painted via my sign supplier (Glantz) I do re-seal the edges with titebond 2, Kilz pimer, and whatever good white paint I have (oil based)

I use either bulletin or lettering enamels for the background (Ronan only) Chromatic is who makes 1 Shot, and supposedly they are changing the formula. But until they do, I won't use it.
Love....Jill

 

[Gino]

We generally get the pre-primed MDO. We then fill the edge plies and voids with Elmer's wood putty. The voids are filled in... in stages, so it dries thoroughly. Once the voids are filled and dried, put a pad of putty on your thumb and run it along the entire length of the board making sure it's completely sealed. Once this dries, sand it off with 180 grit and a block of wood instead of your hand. Now prime the edges and if ya want the top and bottom faces. We use a good latex prime. Next apply a top coat 1Shot, Ronan or any good lettering bulletin works great to all 4 edges and top & bottom faces. Let dry completely. Sand with 220 grit and then tack it [special cloth for removing small particles]. Apply another top coat to all edges and both faces. Let dry completely and then repeat the sanding and tacking steps and put a final coat on everything one more time. Each time when applying paint, don't use too much paint. You want to almost feel like you're pushing the paint through the board to the other side. This will prevent hills and valleys...... orange peel.

The idea behind using the Ronan or 1Shot bulletins is that they are very compatible when dry with your lettering enamels. They won't fight each other the way commercial paint and lettering paint will.

Good luck............... and thanks for keeping a great profession going
​

 

[Mosh]

I router the edge over with a 1/4" round over bit, I then fill with putty and sand. Rounding the edge is the key, the sharp edge is where the paint will fail first. I get pre-primed MDO.

 

[rdm01]

I router the edge over with a 1/4" round over bit, I then fill with putty and sand. Rounding the edge is the key, the sharp edge is where the paint will fail first. I get pre-primed MDO.

This is the best approach. Makes for a longer lasting, better looking sign.

 

[Jillbeans]

I was "hand job only" until 1998 when I got a plotter to make pounce patterns and offer cut vynull lettering.
Until that time, I only used latex gloss house paint for my backgrounds. But vynull does not adhere well to a latex background. That's when I switched to using oil-based.
Lots of people swear by Behr latex paint for their backgrounds.

 

[Mosh]

Ronan or if spraying I used Mathews.

 

[cpgraphix]

I still use alot of MDO, I buy primed mdo from N. Glantz, i always seal the edges with filler reprime both sides put it on heavy on the edges. I have never used an exterior latex as background coat, I only use Ronan or Sherwin Williams Industrial Enamel for that, works out peferct with 1-shot paints, Never had any problems. For a single faced sign i always paint the back Black and the front side what ever color may need. I love MDO just for the fact that it can be cut into any shape easily, I also use MDO to make dimensional signage. All the same process.. I also use the newer aluminum products. As long as they are prepped right they will last just as long if not longer than your new age signs.

For extra protection on your nicer signs Sherwin Williams makes a product called Sher-Clear I will put a heavy coat on.

What i find so odd is walking into new age sign shops and not seeing one gallon of paint or saws... kinda blows my mind..lol

 

[geb]

As mentioned buy good quality mdo, prep well, meaning round off rough edges, prime, I'm an edge caulker, then top coat w/ ronan bulletin enamel, also clear coat w/same brand. Works well for us.

George

 

[Gino]

I still use alot of MDO, I buy primed mdo from N. Glantz, i always seal the edges with filler reprime both sides put it on heavy on the edges. I have never used an exterior latex as background coat, I only use Ronan or Sherwin Williams Industrial Enamel for that, works out peferct with 1-shot paints, Never had any problems. For a single faced sign i always paint the back Black and the front side what ever color may need. I love MDO just for the fact that it can be cut into any shape easily, I also use MDO to make dimensional signage. All the same process.. I also use the newer aluminum products. As long as they are prepped right they will last just as long if not longer than your new age signs.

For extra protection on your nicer signs Sherwin Williams makes a product called Sher-Clear I will put a heavy coat on.

What i find so odd is walking into new age sign shops and not seeing one gallon of paint or saws... kinda blows my mind..lol

Haha.......

Some years ago, a lady came into our shop and started asking questions about signs..... like sizes, colors, materials for a quote. We talked for a few minutes and then she asked.... what's that smell ?? I said, I don't know and Jeremy said, not sure, I don't smell anything out of the ordinary. So, we continued talking about signs and then we moved into another part of the shop where I showed her some examples and she said, oh my God, what is that awful smell ?? It's everywhere now. My eyes are starting to burn. Ah.. ?? Maybe it's the paint ?? We are afterall a sign shop and we do a lot of painting on a daily basis. She said, I didn't smell this at any of the other places I was at. Perhaps, they can't give you custom colors without putting vinyl down. She walked out saying she couldn't deal with us the way we were polluting the air and her lungs.

:Oops: guess she wasn't ever in a real sign shop before.......
​

 

[OldPaint]

when i do MDO....... i get it pre-primed. reprime it with kilz oil base. lite sand it and then i ............SPRAY PAINT IT WITH AUTOMOTIVE PAINT!!!!!! never hada failure.

 

[TammieH]

No matter what you do to MDO, it seems the top layer will bubble up, it just absorbs the moisture like a sponge.

Although there was a sign company back in Cincy that use to use Imron, we never tried it, its pretty expensive

We would brush an elastomeric compound on the edges, and paint with 3 coats of enamel (no primer) the theory is that
the enamel would soak into the MDO and bite, really did not work very well.

We actually use MDO for Landuse signs here, and discovered that Rust-Oleum Professional works well for background paint (less expensive than 1-Shot)

BTW, MDO was never meant for the sign industry, but the manufacturers were more than willing to sell it to anyone

it was designed for the concrete industry, for foundation walls etc.

Some old timers discovered it, and started using it in the 60's I believe.


Have fun learning the trade!!!

 

[visual800]

I was "hand job only" until 1998.

Is that a fact?

 

[Dronex]

Wow thanks for all the wisdom everybody! Didn't expect all that, but I will now be preparing my MDO accordingly, and picking up some bulletin enamel.. I just got finished installing the job that really had me wondering about all this- it's a Rusto Pro background coat lettered with 1shot and Ronan, hope she holds.. I kind of alluded to my concerns with the tattoo shop owner to which he replied his sign will just "look cooler faster" so live and learn.. I don't know why these photos are sideways but you get the idea.

 

[Billct2]

Nice looking sign. A nice bracket would really set it off, you should look into some of the suppliers that carry the better ones (like hooks & lattice)