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Turn Key Installation Waiver???

SignDesignLady

Always Learning
Anyone have a template or suggestions of what I should include in an installation waiver for a customer who is supplying the graphics to us for installation. This is going to be 3M vinyl for textured surfaces. They have provided the spec sheets on the graphics and we have invested in tools to do the job properly and spoken to our attorney who will draw up the contract/waiver. The problem is he is needing terminology in constructing the documents that is relative to the job. Never have done one of these so I am a bit clueless. Grateful for any help.
 

GaSouthpaw

Profane and profane accessories.
Don't know of any sources for a "template", but I'd suggest you write down everything you don't want to be "on the hook" for and have the attorney put it in legalese.
I'd suggest: adhesive failure (particularly if the wall's recently painted and they won't wait the appropriate time for the paint to cure), paint damage due to adhesive, dissatisfaction due to material (or print) quality, not enough pieces (or too many) because the initial survey was wrong and design doesn't fit. Probably a lot more I'm not thinking of, but I'm only halfway through my coffee.
 

Ian Stewart-Koster

Older Greyer Brushie
We do lots of installations with provided materials - no waivers etc, and to date, no problems except one...
and that was with materials provided by us, actually.
We'd fitted signage to a building - all ACM panels cut, shaped and glued , covering 30 feet x 6 feet, and attached with a toggle screw that goes into the cement sheeting and flops down, then you tighten it.
That was 20 feet up in the air.

2 months later a freak wind blew past the building and ripped 5 of the versilux or villaboard cement sheets off, pulling my sign down with it.
The rest of my sign held up, still attached to the shed. The other end was on the ground. In between were cement sheets that had been inadequately affixed to the shed frame, with barely 4 screws per sheet.
Clearly the fault was not my sign - it was still connected at both ends- up on the building, and peeling dowen to the ground. The builders had never put enough screws in their cement sheeting.

But the building belonged to a firm of lawyers who bought it as an investment, and despite me being 'in the right' I could not afford to fight them, and they were being all smart-arsed and refusing to accept it was any one else's fault but mine.
So sadly we made it all anew, and bought new wall sheeting and fitted and painted that too.
A week's extra work, plus materials, for zero return except saving our good name, and saving extra costs through court, although I could have proven we'd win - I kept all broken sheets for 8 years and it was obvious the original fixings were woefully inadequate.

I was just grateful that when it fell off, the bit that hit the ground landed between 2 expensive cars, and not on them, nor on any people.
 
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Triggerforge

New Member
The folks here have answered pretty well and have a good deal more experience than I with this. But, that said Chat GPT of all things has actually done a really good job writing my "terms and conditions" type work when needed. Just tell it the jist of what you want and list the types of things you don't want to be held accountable for.

My understanding from biz law in school(I'm not a lawyer, and I believe this varies by state, so take this with a grain of salt.) is that as long a contract consists of both something given and received even if verbal is legally binding. This means that if someone signs your term sheet, especially if you have it notarized, you won't have any trouble. That said, even just having them sign something that makes it look like you have your legal side together you're unlikely to have people wanting to waste money to test that.
 

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
If I had to deal with an attorney to do a job, I think I'd just pass on that job. Is this how everyone wants things to be? Too complicated.

Agree with Tex, just keep it simple.
When I saw "our lawyer..." I was wondering how big of a job is this, and if you need a lawyer to install something, you are in over your head. Echo... what Tex said:

We do not warranty, and are not responsible for damage, failure or the
replacement costs associated with graphics or materials not manufactured by us.
 
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ProSignTN

New Member
In my early 20's, I had the awful experience of selling mobile homes for a living. Good money, but no way to be a good human. Even with my excellent youthful eyesight I was struggling to read what seemed like 10,000 words in 3 pt print on the back of our contracts. The owner walked by and said, "You don't need to read that. It says we can f*uck them and they can't f*uck us.
 

gnubler

Active Member
But the building belonged to a firm of lawyers who bought it as an investment, and despite me being 'in the right' I could not afford to fight them, and they were being all smart-arsed and refusing to accept it was any one else's fault but mine.
Nightmare. Sorry that happened to you. Coincidentally, I'm currently doing a biggish project for a law firm office. Hope things don't go south.

The upside is that I get to bill an attorney my hourly rate! It may take me longer than normal to do this particular job...

The more people engage with the trend of our overly-litigious society, the worse/harder life seems to get. Stop giving these a$$holes money, and too much of it.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I don't think a waiver will hold up on many levels, if you make it to your advantage. Other than not holding YOU responsible for any default[s] in the vinyl, as long as they give you what they said it was gonna be, you can't tell someone, they'll be responsible if something goes wrong, unless it was measured wrong. You're a professional and if you mess up your part of the contract, why would they be responsible for replacing vinyls not supplied by you ??

Just had one about 2 months ago. Local sheriff's department wanted their new trailer wrapped. Got the specs and quoted it. Got the job. Vinyl came in and upon inspecting it, it wasn't the correct manufacturer, it wasn't the correct type they specced out [non air release] and they forgot to put some of the graphics in the package altogether. I was told to contact the supplier directly. They apologized and said they'd send all the corrections out soon. Nothin's come in, yet.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I am the professional, but there is only so much that's in my control or that I'm willing to price into the risk. If I'm charging $1k to install something worth $10k, I'm giving a disclosure that I'm not taking responsibility if something goes wrong. Too many variables. You noticed the wrong vinyl but what if it's vinyl that you can't tell what is or isn't? You install something on the wrong wall and it falls down, is it my responsibility because they sent the wrong vinyl but I couldn't determine it? What if they let the store get down to 20 degrees right after I install and it fell. What if it's a Jeep sign and the protective film over the mirror finish burns a mark on the substrate, but the note that said to remove it prior to sun exposure fell to the bottom of the crate and no one saw it. Does that $3k installer have to eat a $30k sign?

I go with having a disclosure that covers ME the most..... and from there I can decide what I think I should cover or not. Just because the disclosure says I'm not responsible, it's up to me to look at each situation and make what I think is an equitable offer. Everyone who writes a contract tries to make it the best for them... you should see the pages and pages of disclosures some of the nationals write.
 

SignDesignLady

Always Learning
UPDATE: I appreciate all the feedback from everyone. This has been a learning experience. We had a waiver done up, our installer had taken a 3M class and knew how to do this work, we just wanted to be sure we were protected. We presented it to the customer along with our estimate and have never heard from them again. Can only guess that they weren't happy about not being able to blame us if something did go wrong.
 

2B

Active Member
XXXXXXXXX cannot be held accountable if there is damage after the installation occurs from the supplied material and/or products being installed.

XXXXXXXXXX is not responsible to supply instructions for correct care / cleaning or maintenance of graphics / products that are supplied to XXXXXXXXXXX

Any CUSTOMER-SUPPLIED material(s) that are presented to XXXXXXXXXXX has no claim for warranty. Additionally, XXXXXXXXXX is not liable for any damages or costs incurred from repairing / replacing said services, work, and / or material(s) once the project is closed as deemed by XXXXXXXXXX.
 
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