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Two laminate questions
- Thread starter rydods
- Start date
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
I don't think an extra layer of laminate will add much but it might, it would depend on what fails first, ink fade or the laminate. You would think the surface would deteriorate so whatever is under it wouldn't matter. I think gloss holds up better but some may disagree.
Boudica
Back to "educational purposes"
I've never heard of double laminating... except that one time I accidentally laminated something with gloss that should have been matte, so I laminated it again with matte. ( Edit to add, that only works one way) lol.
I also have never heard of one finish being more protective than the other (matte vs gloss).
but I'm a newb.
I also have never heard of one finish being more protective than the other (matte vs gloss).
but I'm a newb.
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We double laminate all the time and never have a problem. You always get the one order where someone wants a satin finish or a matte finish and its cheaper/quicker to just nest it in with the gloss then pre-mask it after its laminated... We've never had something fail.
as to whether it adds more protection - My (very limited) understanding is that the UV rays break down the coating thats blocking them from hitting the pigment - I cant see how multiple layers would help with that... otherwise you know a vendor would come out with a super thick laminate and say it adds 20 years of UV protection to your sign. or a calandered lam thats twice as thick as a cast lam would be better to use if it had UV protection... but I dont think it works that way.
How long are you needing the sign to last? And in what city? Unless youre in one of the more extreme zones... Our printed vinyl lasts 10+ years without fading. Ink has come a long way these days
as to whether it adds more protection - My (very limited) understanding is that the UV rays break down the coating thats blocking them from hitting the pigment - I cant see how multiple layers would help with that... otherwise you know a vendor would come out with a super thick laminate and say it adds 20 years of UV protection to your sign. or a calandered lam thats twice as thick as a cast lam would be better to use if it had UV protection... but I dont think it works that way.
How long are you needing the sign to last? And in what city? Unless youre in one of the more extreme zones... Our printed vinyl lasts 10+ years without fading. Ink has come a long way these days
rydods
Member for quite some time.
Customer used to be a Citgo brand and is now independent. The company that provided the citgo graphics for the canopies, several years ago were providing a 3M product that was extremely thick and I cannot find out what it's made up of. I asked the company directly and they are being extremely vague and it looks like they now screen print directly to the metal. My customer says they were getting upwards of 20 - 30 years out of the citgo material!
rjssigns
Active Member
For metal blanks: Cut masks and paint with automotive base/clear. Pricey but will last.
Cheap route: Cut masks and use Rustoleum. Years ago did tons of signs like that. Zero failures.
Cheapest route: Print on cast vinyl, don't laminate then apply to surface and bury in automotive clear. I do graphics for dump trucks that get beat and the graphics still look great.
For backlit or not: Polycarb with second surface graphic. Super durable.
Cheap route: Cut masks and use Rustoleum. Years ago did tons of signs like that. Zero failures.
Cheapest route: Print on cast vinyl, don't laminate then apply to surface and bury in automotive clear. I do graphics for dump trucks that get beat and the graphics still look great.
For backlit or not: Polycarb with second surface graphic. Super durable.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
20-30 years seems like an awfully long time for a gas station to not either get an updated logo and color scheme from the supplier or totally re-branded.
Maybe it was a polycarbonate?
Maybe it was a polycarbonate?
rydods
Member for quite some time.
It was vinyl. We cut letters out of it. I had to double cut it on our graphtec or use a high force to get it to cut through.
rydods
Member for quite some time.
I see the company that was providing the Citgo canopy graphics is now screen printing directly on the canopy metal now so finding out what they were using 10-20 years ago is impossible at this point. Money is no object to them, if I can't get my material to last at least 10 years in direct sunlight, my head will be on a chopping block in 10 years time.
rjssigns
Active Member
I hear you. You're stuck with paint, either on a metal or ACM panel.
If I were in your boots I'd use a high quality single stage catalyzed urethane auto paint.
Not that big of a deal, just takes some time with layout and masking.
Could go for the throat too and use Imron or an aircraft paint. Big bucks but ultimate durability.
Scotchbrite
No comment
Does it have to be printed? We've gotten 10 years plus out of 220 Gerber vinyl.
rydods
Member for quite some time.
Yes everything has to be printed. Even the cut vinyl graphics haven't held up long. In 2016 we used oracal 970 RA wrap vinyl and it has faded and looks terrible today.
Scotchbrite
No comment
I used to have really good luck with 3M 8528 laminate lasting a long time, but I don't think you can get it anymore.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
If it has to be vinyl hit it with 3 coats of a good auto clear.
rydods
Member for quite some time.
I would but their workers do the installs. For the 970 RA wrap material I'm thinking of laminating it.
A 3M rep recommended IJ180MC with 8518 for Lamination for the printed stuff.