UV ink and vehicle wraps

[TulsaScuba]

I have a Mimaki UCJV300-160 with LUS-200 inks. This machine was purchased prior to my arrival and was chosen for the ability to go direct from print to lamination to install while having a large color gamut. The problem we have encountered is the material becomes extremely brittle and tears like paper at times. UV lamps have been checked and are within service specs. A variety of 3M materials have been tried with limited changes to success. We have tried IJ180, IJ280, IJ480 and various laminate combinations. We have tried Avery 1105 with Avery 1360Z laminate and have significant silvering issues, even with using a GFP 363TH with top heat and firm pressure. Has anyone had success with this machine and ink set or has anyone had similar issues? Our primary focus is on buses, are large flat side panels with complex curves on front and rear. The closest I may have come to a solution is using Avery 1105 and laminating with 3M 8428. Anyone have ideas or similar experience?

 

[White Haus]

We have a UCJV w/ LUS-170 inks, and we've done a few flat wraps (cube vans, food trucks) successfully over the years. I believe we used MPI 1105 w/ 1360z. The silvering (like with any laminate on UV ink) does go away over time, especially after being exposed to sunlight.

Are you using standard/canned profiles? That printer does lay down some seriously thick ink, which is what's making it brittle. I've definitely had prints tear on us but never when installing.

First thing we did when we got that printer was create custom profiles in Onyx - I would suspect that our ink limits are lower than canned profiles and I'd like to think that helps.

 

[TulsaScuba]

We have a UCJV w/ LUS-170 inks, and we've done a few flat wraps (cube vans, food trucks) successfully over the years. I believe we used MPI 1105 w/ 1360z. The silvering (like with any laminate on UV ink) does go away over time, especially after being exposed to sunlight.

Are you using standard/canned profiles? That printer does lay down some seriously thick ink, which is what's making it brittle. I've definitely had prints tear on us but never when installing.

First thing we did when we got that printer was create custom profiles in Onyx - I would suspect that our ink limits are lower than canned profiles and I'd like to think that helps.

I have been using the 3M profiles for RasterLink6.

 

[TulsaScuba]

This is what my failure tends to look like.

 

[White Haus]

This is what my failure tends to look like.

Yikes, not what you want to see when installing graphics. I would honestly suggest checking out Onyx or if you're otherwise happy with Rasterlink, see if you're able to create/use custom profiles within that workflow.
I would really think that reducing ink limits would help with the vinyl becoming so brittle.

Personally, I couldn't stand Rasterlink or anything about it. Seemed like it was designed, written and/or translated by a child.

Have you talked to Mimaki and/or your dealer?

I'd offer to run some tests here but I've deleted RL and we're running a different inkset so I'm not sure how helpful it would be.

 

[TulsaScuba]

I've had very long discussions with both my dealer and 3M. Everyone has been very nice and quite helpful in trying to diagnose my problem. What it has come down to, is that I am an isolated case, so my blip on radar is less than a pea in hailstorm.

My honest desire is to get rid of the machine and get something better suited for the work we are doing. I have used both eco-sol and latex for wraps without EVER seeing anything like this happen. I now the ink set makes a lot of difference and the LUS-200 is the 3M approved ink for wraps.

I am not a fan of RL either and much preferred Onyx back when I used it. I could possibly try to test drive Onyx and see if I get better results. Although, creating profiles is not something I am familiar with doing.

 

[White Haus]

I've had very long discussions with both my dealer and 3M. Everyone has been very nice and quite helpful in trying to diagnose my problem. What it has come down to, is that I am an isolated case, so my blip on radar is less than a pea in hailstorm.

My honest desire is to get rid of the machine and get something better suited for the work we are doing. I have used both eco-sol and latex for wraps without EVER seeing anything like this happen. I now the ink set makes a lot of difference and the LUS-200 is the 3M approved ink for wraps.

I am not a fan of RL either and much preferred Onyx back when I used it. I could possibly try to test drive Onyx and see if I get better results. Although, creating profiles is not something I am familiar with doing.

I feel your frustration, I've been in same boat with equipment before and hearing the old "we haven't come across this before" bit is never helpful. I'd be really curious to hear if there are other members here with your same inkset successfully printing and installing wraps. (I know that was your original question, hopefully other members can chime in)

I don't blame you for wanting to move onto another machine, there have been times I've thought the same thing about ours. I like it for banners, quick turnaround unlaminated prints, wall wraps etc. but only use it for vehicles if there is no other option or other printers are down.

Creating custom profiles isn't SUPER difficult but would cost a couple grand to get a spectrophotometer and/or training. The UCJV was the first printer we created them for and despite a huge hiccup with creating a profile with white ink, I'm glad we did it.

If you can get a demo of Onyx / Onyx GO it might be worth just trying some of their canned profiles and see how they compare to RL's output. I suspect even the canned onyx profiles may be better/lay down less ink than RL - I don't trust anything about that software. I seem to remember their colors/ink limits being really jacked to try to give the impression of a wider color gamut, which unfortunately results in laying down way too much ink.

I'm no color/profile expert, but even though you can physically lay down a bunch of ink with UV and you don't have to worry about oversaturating the vinyl, doesn't mean you should. (Directed towards Rasterlink)

 

[Notarealsignguy]

hearing the old "we haven't come across this before" bit

Makes my blood boil.

 

[Aaron Hunter]

Sadly the UV inks will destroy the performance of any vinyl. We tried to use it for mildly textured walls and it failed miserably.

 

[dog_50]

I don’t care how many dealers tell you that UV inks work for wrapping vehicles, THEY DO NOT!
I have had shops with a half dozen or so flatbeds and I don’t care which ink set they try to sell you, they all crack. Some are just worse than others.
Invest in a roll to roll latex or Solvent machine

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Without getting into a Ford vs Chevy thing, we print 30-50 metres of 3MIJ180 and IJ280 on our Colorados every day.
90% of it goes on vehicles (like the one attached), and 10 metre truck sides.
UV ink changes the surface tension of the vinyl which is what causes tearing to start, also the Matte finish of the ink retards the laminate from bonding well to the print (Silvering).

Colorado UV prints works a lot better for wraps than other UV prints mainly because it prints a High Gloss finish which the laminate bonds to really well, helping keep it all together.

That said, the biggest difference you can make to your tearing issue is to use URETHANE LAMINATE.
It's way, way tougher than Cast for tearing, doesn't scratch, and is way more durable generally, 3M, Oracal, Avery, they all make it.
It's pricey, but so much better than Cast laminate, strangely it never gets a mention on this site.

We use Oracal 279.

 

[White Haus]

That said, the biggest difference you can make to your tearing issue is to use URETHANE LAMINATE.
It's way, way tougher than Cast for tearing, doesn't scratch, and is way more durable generally, 3M, Oracal, Avery, they all make it.
It's pricey, but so much better than Cast laminate, strangely it never gets a mention on this site.

We use Oracal 279.

Interesting, I don't know that I've ever heard of urethane laminates before.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Oracal - 279
3M - 8548
Avery - 6460
Arlon - 3310

Oracal and 3M are available in a Satin finish as well, I think they all have Horizontal warranties as well.
The list prices are high but distributors generally give chunky discounts on full rolls.

 

[DChorbowski]

Oracal - 279
3M - 8548
Avery - 6460
Arlon - 3310

Oracal and 3M are available in a Satin finish as well, I think they all have Horizontal warranties as well.
The list prices are high but distributors generally give chunky discounts on full rolls.

Thats great info, thanks!

 

[White Haus]

Oracal - 279
3M - 8548
Avery - 6460
Arlon - 3310

Oracal and 3M are available in a Satin finish as well, I think they all have Horizontal warranties as well.
The list prices are high but distributors generally give chunky discounts on full rolls.

Thanks for this, will check them out!