14x66" Sign - Printed on 3/4" MDO with framing

[fresh]

Sometimes I really dislike customers. I've been working with someone for 4 months trying to get permits for his sign. The first time he came in I quoted him for 18x72" sign. Printed graphic (with PMS match!) attached to a 3/4" painted MDO panel, with a painted wood frame. This sign is going to be hung by chains over the railing of the porch and installed by us. (Its an old house converted into a store.) I originally quoted him $425 for the larger sign, and 4 months later he can only get a permit for the slightly smaller sign. I say ok, it will be $400... The size difference really did not change the cost or time involved in making the sign. Now that he has the permit, after going back and forth with zoning and the historical committee and me advising how to get the permit, he tells me he thought "mid 300's" would be a more reasonable price, and so he is going with another sign company.

WTF?? I have to cut the panel to size, paint the edges, cut and paint the moldings for the frame, install the vinyl, install the hooks for hanging, and INSTALL the thing and he thinks $400 is out of this world. He had the price 4 months ago!! Am I wrong in wanting to punch this guy in the face for pulling the project on me?

Argh. We are a little slow right now, this isn't even a big job, but I'm pissed that someone else is doing it for less $$ after I've been waiting on it for so long.

 

[Circleville Signs]

First things first - why are you doing work before you have a deposit?

Second - See the first thing.

 

[fresh]

First things first - why are you doing work before you have a deposit?

Second - See the first thing.

I don't normally do work without a deposit. This was an exception because the town is being a HUGE pain in @ss with permitting and we didn't know what they were going to be approved for. Also, he gave me vector artwork, so its just been me calling to follow up and give advice on what to say and do to get the permit. I didn't do anything more than I normally do when pricing something out, its just that this took forever so it stings more. I don't really know how to convince people to give me money when they aren't sure if they are going to be allowed to have the sign or not.

Case in point.... We have been waiting for 6 months for the go-ahead on a set of signs ($4,000!!!). Our client has to go for a variance because our local zoning official likes to make everyone's lives miserable. There is a historic district (same place as the sign that I was complaining about) who's preservation committee doesn't always agree with the town's zoning and vice versa. We haven't gotten a deposit on this sign yet because it may not be approved. Serious question... what do you do in this situation?

 

[Circleville Signs]

It's simple - you have to segment your services.

Our fees for consultation/permit acquisition are totally separate from anything else we do. If the project requires us to provide drawings, whether the client provides an EPS or not is irrelivent - we still did work.

Whether the city approves the permit application (especially if it is a variance request) has nothing to do with us getting paid for our time.

Of course, a big part of that is having a copy of your city's (and any city you work in) sign code. You should know that thing inside and out so that you can make the best recommendations to your client.

The point is, if someone wants to make sure of my knowledge and time, then they have to PAY for that knowledge and time. In answer to your question, this is, close to verbatim, how I would handle it up front.

"Mr. Customer. Thanks for stopping in today. We appreciate the chance to work with you. I just want us all to be on the same page so that going forward there aren't any surprises. Our initial consultation here today is complimentary. It's our way of showing you that we really want to earn your business! After this consultation, you will be billed for any work that we do, whether that work is clerical, acquisitional, graphical, or the physical building/installation of your signs. As you know, our wonderful township doesn't always make it easy to get the signs that you want approved. We are happy to help with that process, however we charge and acquisition fee of $200, in addition to any actual permit costs, variance fees, etc. That deposit amount would be due today if you would like to utilize our knowledge and time to help steer you through the process. If you'd like to handle the permits yourself, then there's no problem at all! Since you are providing us with artwork, we would charge you $100 to set up the files and provide them to you in a format that should help with the permitting process. Which would you like to move forward with?"

 

[HulkSmash]

...Doesn't matter how painful it is to get a permit. We charge a permit acquisition fee. Doesn't matter if we can do the job, we get paid for our legwork...

 

[fresh]

"Mr. Customer. Thanks for stopping in today. We appreciate the chance to work with you. I just want us all to be on the same page so that going forward there aren't any surprises. Our initial consultation here today is complimentary. It's our way of showing you that we really want to earn your business! After this consultation, you will be billed for any work that we do, whether that work is clerical, acquisitional, graphical, or the physical building/installation of your signs. As you know, our wonderful township doesn't always make it easy to get the signs that you want approved. We are happy to help with that process, however we charge and acquisition fee of $200, in addition to any actual permit costs, variance fees, etc. That deposit amount would be due today if you would like to utilize our knowledge and time to help steer you through the process. If you'd like to handle the permits yourself, then there's no problem at all! Since you are providing us with artwork, we would charge you $100 to set up the files and provide them to you in a format that should help with the permitting process. Which would you like to move forward with?"

Thank you for this, it will be helpful for me in the future. We didn't provide him with any graphics or information other than what I proposed the sign to be made of (exactly what is in my original description.) He had another designer do his logo (ARIAL BOLD FTW!!!) and that designer did the paperwork and drawings for the permits. Its more that I just kept following up on the job, and I wish he would have just said "you are too expensive for us" from the start.

But back to my original question... was my price really too high? I bet there are going to be many people who think its too low.

 

[J Hill Designs]

way too low

 

[fresh]

Of course, a big part of that is having a copy of your city's (and any city you work in) sign code. You should know that thing inside and out so that you can make the best recommendations to your client.

The town we do most work in has 12 pages of sign ordinances. I know them very well, but there is also a historic district that has other requirements, and as I said earlier, the two parties don't always agree.

Also, if everyone went by the written ordinances, about 70% of the signs that are currently in place would be considered in violation of code. "Backlit signs must not have a white background." Um, yeah. ALL the lightbox signs within a 2 mile radius of our shop have white backgrounds...except for the ones that we've done, because we try to follow the ordinances.

 

[J Hill Designs]

ah yes. our city now has a 'no white background' clause for backlit as well

'light pollution' my A$$

 

[fresh]

way too low

Thank you. When he asked for a better price, I said no, it is a fantastic price as it stands. I offered to do it without the framing for $325. I just needed someone else to tell me I'm not insane for sticking to my guns and not lowering any more.

 

[TopFliteGraphics]

Price sounded very fair to me for all of the work you have to do.